BOND007

^ Novella^

bdotdan

but we don't know for sure if the girls were telling him to stop, if they weren't, i agree with u nova that they are just as guilty. BUT if they were telling him to stop, they don't deserve to die. the girls have no control over whether the driver will listen to them or not, like with the example given to you, your girlfriend tells your friend to stop, but he may not listen. all im tryin to say is that we can't automatically assume that the passengers are also guilty unless we know all the facts about what was going on.

Nova_Dust

Who says I am jumping to conclusions? I have been arguing this whols issue base on moral grounds and giving real life situations from people that I know of.

I don't know what the girls did in the car, and I don't wish to know. However, as you have stated and quoted from me, that if the passengers did tried to stop the driver, they weren't guilty and they were innocent from this tragedy.

Of course, you have your opinion, and I am not saying your point isn't valid. But from where I stand, I don't think the girls tried to stop the driver. In fact, I believe they were enjoying this joy ride until something went wrong.

I am sure that guy ain't the first guy that did 200 on the 4 series highways. And that there will be many more idoits to follow him. Some will ride with thrill and came out alive; while other less fortunate and innocent cars will get involved, and possibly die.

It is one thing to be sympathic on certain issues; it is certainly another to be rational and thinking from the bigger picture.

SpikeyLee

I agree with the lot of you that if person did die in a car crash due to street racing then they shouldn't deserve much (if any) sympathy.

However, Nova in your first post in this thread you wrote that the girls deserved the same fatal fate as the driver for being "stupid enough to sit in the car in the first place... [and as such] they deserve to go down with the drivers." I guess that that can be conceived as jumping to a conclusion, but if it were worded differently (as you along with many others have clarified since then) then it would've been better.

Good posts from a lot of you, it's great to read what other people think about this topic.

imported_jason_alt

Who made this guy judge, jury and executioner?

You raised some points. But people deserving to die for street racing isn't even a point nor an opinion. It's just plain wrong. Say it with me, People Don't Deserve To Die. Good job, you're learning. If everyone was entitled to a death sentence once they royally fucked up, there'd be nobody left. Envision your own kid in the drivers seat and see if you soften up your tone a notch or two.

And for you to ASSUME how the passengers were reacting is ludicrous. blah blah blah 'your real life experiences' blah. Everyone has experienced a slice of reality. It's called life and it's not restricted to a select few. Were you in the car with them?

no buts!!!!!

were you in the car with them?

ah!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO BUTS!

Were you in the car with them?!!!

Of course you weren't silly rabbit. You can never assume how they were reacting. You weren't there.. plain and simple.



gatherer:Don't drive on the street with R compounds then. Bring a container of gas and you're set.

If the tires extrude past the wheel wells, then you're gonna get nailed..

I don't think it's fair that cops get such a bad rap. I've been pulled over.. big deal. You get a few bad apples, but what profession doesn't have them? They're doing their job by enforcing the laws implemented by the politicians we vote into power. And yes there were some cops at the hershey center on saturday.. good for them I say. Cops deal with a lot of bullshit everday, so give them a break. If some kid doesn't like it cause a cop wasn't nice when given a ticket for stupid blue lights on the hood, boo friggin hoo. Take them off and go cry to mom.

bdotdan

i agree, but don't deserve to die because they made a huge mistake, but they certainly deserve some sort of punishment, just not death, isn't this why we don't have the death penalty in canada

but i don't agree with u about the cop thing. how come they don't do **** when **** is stolen from you, but they're ready to bust anybody with a nice ride for something that may not even be illegal, example: exhaust tickets. a cop can't tell by ear if your exhaust is too loud.

yes there are a lot of people who abuse there power in other industries, but u got to remember that the police are there to serve and protect, not hassle people who enjoy modding their car

imported_jason_alt

It takes one punk in a souped up ricebox to give all other enthusiasts a bad rep.

It takes one cop with a chip on his/her shoulder to give all other cops a bad rep.

There's more enthusiasts than riceboys and there's more cops that serve and protect than cops that hassle and harrass. I guess it goes both ways.

EK7_DriftMania

Remember there was an accident where a girl that stuck a pignant woman and killed her, because she ran the red light. That was stupid.

I don't understand how there could be a six car pile up? What kind of weed are they smoking? I guess their brakes was not working.

Nova_Dust

How was I assuming the passengers' reaction laughable and ludicrous? Of course I wasn't there, hence, I guessed. I assume how they reacted but I didn't say that's how they actually acted. So, were you there during the accident? I think not. So tell me Jason_alt, how do you think they reacted? You think:

A) they told the driver to stop;
B) they told the driver to speed up;
C) they were passed out;
D) they were looking out the window enjoying the scenery even though they couldn't really see **** when the car is driving at 200;
E) they were checking out the honks in the other vehicle;
F) they were powdering their nose;
G) they were making a phone call to someone telling them they are having a thrill;

Royally fucked up? That means they really really fucked up, no? I mean, on a scale of 1 to 10, I think royally fucked up is like 11 or 12. So when you are this fucked up, what good are you to the society anymore?

When your action can jeopardize other innocent people's life, you my friend, is no different then a killer, or a murderer. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

I have been into accidents when I was little, and my parents never harboured my action. They punished me for what I did and warned me the danger in driving a vehicle.

Nope. What does my kid in the driver seat being different then other people? So you are saying if your kid was driving, you wouldn't be so harsh on their actions? That if they street raced someone and killed another, that you would say: "oh they were just kids, they didn't know any better..." I am glad my parents went hard on me when I made a mistake so I wouldn't make the same one again.

Life is partially restricted to laws. Because the law says I cannot drink in the public, therefore, I drink in my own house even though I feel like doing so once in a while and hence, when I visit Quebec City, I drink on the street. Because the law says it is wrong to kill a person, that's why when I am pissed at someone, I wouldn't go buy a gun and put 4 bullets in his head. Because the laws restricts us driving 100km on the highways, they think it is the optimal speed for everyone to handle and when you go double the speed, you don't have what it takes to handle the speed. Because the law says stealing is wrong, so when you envy someone else's nice ride, you wouldn't attempt of taking something that's not yours. Because the law says you should only have one wife/husband, that's why you only have one spouse even though you love to sleep around, you still can't **** 2 wives at the same time.

You can of course, jack off 4 times a day should you feel the need, the law doesn't say you can't. You don't have to go to University, the law doesn't force you to go. You don't have to buy a Honda Civic, the law doesn't say that. But those are personal judgements, and that’s something you do base on your own well that will only effect your own style of life. Should you feel pain or stiffness from too much masturbation; should you not have a better education and ended up poor; or should you be driving some other brand of car and realize it is not fuel economical, these are all your own choices. And these actions will not affect other people.

You just don’t get the concept, do you? So tell me, when someone’s action is jeopardizing your life, what should be the consequences of his/her action? When your kid is walking down the street and a street racer drove by and kill your kid, or seriously injured your kid, what do you say about that?

Nova_Dust

Yes, I apologize for my initial post for not explaining the reason behind. Thank you for pointing that out.

bdotdan

remember though nova that there are exceptions to every rule. when u kill someone out of self defence, you still killed someone, but its justified. now obviously if someone were to die in a street race, this example above doesn't apply in any way, just wanted an example to show u that there are exceptions to every rule.

may i ask u why u believe death is a good punishment? they don't really suffer anything like the families of the people who die. i believe that this person having to live with the fact that they killed someone is better punishment, but also not the only punishment, they should have their liscence taken away for ever, along with jail time. because if this person dies, they don't suffer at all.

btw im not tryin to pick on ya or anything, though it may seem so, i just tryin to understand your stand on the issue a little more

Gallagher

wow, this thread is long, and i'm way to lazy to read it right now...

Nova_Dust

Exception to every rule? I would like to know what is the exception to drinking and driving? Self-defense of course is a different case. But if you said exception to some rules, I’d buy that.

Life sentence to me, is a really waste of tax payer’s money. When you are charged with life or even double life sentence, what’s the point of staying alive? Send a bullet to his head and that’s that. Do you have any idea how much money it costs to raise a criminal for the rest of his life? When you set an example, people will learn and follow. Unfortunately, only animals do that, human however, is one exception. We challenge the authorities and trying to break the rules all the time, or even bending it. Drug trafficking will get you what, 25 years in Canada? It is a Death Only punishment in China. You deal drugs that will affect thousands of people, you might as well stay dead then having us tax payers paying for your food and shelter for your next 25 years of life time.

Drinking and Driving is seriously enough to have your license taken away forever, let alone speed and kill. New immigrants who drink and drive can have their landing status taken away and deport to where ever they came from. That’s how serious this matter is.

I often think: “wow, I can’t believe I am driving a car…” Some people think driving is easy. Push in the key, turn and slam the gas and off you go. But it is people with this type of mentality that is easiest to cause mistakes and ended up in a tragedy. You are moving a piece of metal that weights nearly 3000 pounds on the road, one fetal move can cause your life, and someone else’s.

imported_jason_alt

...grab a cookie... this is going to take awhile...

Sooooooooooooo............ why assume at all then? Does it make you feel better? Aaaand why ask me how they reacted? I wasn't there either and you know that. Therefore I won't make presumptions. Thank you for helping me make my point. So stop guessing and drop it.

And since you mention laws and how we must abide by them, judges and juries must adhere to these same laws.. the same laws and rules that require FACT and not ASSUMPTIONS or GUESSES to determine if someone was guilty of a crime. Does 'innocent until proven guilty' mean anything to you? And don't bother to tailor and skew that last statement to further make your 'point'. To do so would be contradictory and hypocritical.

First off, when I mentioned 'royally fucked up', it referred to someone's actions as opposed to their state of mind. You took it out of context once again. Secondly, people who do make big mistakes are of great value to society. They're not a write off as you so happen to propose. More importantly, street racing is not an offense punishable by death.

sigh...

The ANCIENT logic of 'an eye for an eye' is what some proponents concur is justification for the use of capital punishment. However, the moral implications of using this as a standard for punishment are inconsistent. We do not use sexual assault as a punishment for rapists, nor do we burn down arsonists' homes. This logic, though, is the very same that attempts to legitimize the taking of human life. More importantly, the strict following of this logic is impossible to accomplish, even in the case of capital crimes.

To understand the inappropriateness of the death penalty, it is important that the primary job of a govenment be understood. At it's root, the job of laws are to protect the citizens of a nation, not to establish the government as an agent of retributive justice. The use of capital punishment isn't critical, let alone necessary, for the protection of citizens; a standard punishment of life imprisonment without parole is just as effective, perhaps even more, than the administration of the death penalty. (Cost effectiveness is not even an issue i'm willing to entertain. You cannot put a price on the value of a human being as Ford Motors Co. so shamefully did back in the mid seventies.... ANYWHO.)

One common misconception held by advocates of capital punishment is that its use is critical to deterring violent crime. However, there are some flawed basic assumptions that are overlooked in this argument. One such fallicy is that people commiting capital crimes are rational. The fact of the matter, however, is that most premeditated killers are relying on the idea that they won't be punished for their acts. No matter how harsh a possible consequense is, nothing will deter someone.

Moving along,

Envisioning your kid in the drivers seat was not an example in order to justify their actions or to be a little more leniant. It was to give you a different perspective on your views of deserving to die. You took it out of context. If it was your own child racing, do you believe he deserves death? And if he did survive? Are you going to murder him anyway because he brought shame to your family? I would hope not.

And I do understand the concept of the laws of the land, thank you very much. What I don't understand are YOUR concepts. They are contradictory. You follow the laws, yet contradict them to your own liking. If someone killed or seriously injured my kid, revenge and vengeance would not be my solution, or the solution of the laws to which we abide by. And making some choices that don't break the law WILL affect other human beings. That's a different topic and we're veering waaaaaaaaay off course. So to quickly sum up...

1. You can't assume or guess what actions the passengers were taking. Go rent "12 Angry Men". If you've already seen it, watch it again.

2. Street racing is not a crime punishable by death.

BOND007

Assumptions are the Mother of All **** ups

never assume anything makes an *** out of U and ME




One long *** thread ......



Bbarbulo and I should have shanghai'd this a long time ago

bbarbulo

iTrader: (2)

LOL, I kept up with it for a while, then it turned bunk... so I stopped reading the b/s replies. There is nothing to be gained from reading this thread... nothing at all. I'd lock this bitch up *ahem*

BOND007

Bruno ..








Your wish is my Command

that and this thread is going to cause more problems then it will fix