Banning Handguns
08-Dec-2005, 10:24 PM
#21
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Originally posted by stock94block
liberals are going to have to do better to please me.
liberals are going to have to do better to please me.
u want me to have him come by your place and give you a handjob?
LOL
09-Dec-2005, 12:41 AM
#22
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Banning handguns will do absolutely nothing to stop gun violence in Toronto. It is just another way to make it appear that the goverment has a solution to a problem, when in reality they don't.
Handguns are restricted firearms, and you need to apply for a permit to purchase one, and these permits are not given nearly as frequently as unresricted Firearms permits are.
You must be able to prove that you need a handgun for either your job (eg. armoured truck wokers) or that your life is in danger and you feel that the police will not be able to protect you. I think that it is pretty safe to say that those who have been contributing to the Toronto gun violence problem did not acquire their firearms in this manner.
Its easy to say, "yes ban handguns, ban all guns for that matter". Big deal, it dosn't take illegal firearms off the street, nor does it solve the problem. It only creates the illustion that the government is trying to do something about it.
In my opinion there is only one way to stop the gun violence in Toronto, and that is a greater police presence and alot of investigation as to who is bringing illegal weapons across the boarder.
Its like painting over rust, unless you solve the problem its not gonna go away.
Handguns are restricted firearms, and you need to apply for a permit to purchase one, and these permits are not given nearly as frequently as unresricted Firearms permits are.
You must be able to prove that you need a handgun for either your job (eg. armoured truck wokers) or that your life is in danger and you feel that the police will not be able to protect you. I think that it is pretty safe to say that those who have been contributing to the Toronto gun violence problem did not acquire their firearms in this manner.
Its easy to say, "yes ban handguns, ban all guns for that matter". Big deal, it dosn't take illegal firearms off the street, nor does it solve the problem. It only creates the illustion that the government is trying to do something about it.
In my opinion there is only one way to stop the gun violence in Toronto, and that is a greater police presence and alot of investigation as to who is bringing illegal weapons across the boarder.
Its like painting over rust, unless you solve the problem its not gonna go away.
09-Dec-2005, 12:47 AM
#23
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Originally posted by d16y8
Banning handguns will do absolutely nothing to stop gun violence in Toronto. It is just another way to make it appear that the goverment has a solution to a problem, when in reality they don't.
Handguns are restricted firearms, and you need to apply for a permit to purchase one, and these permits are not given nearly as frequently as unresricted Firearms permits are.
You must be able to prove that you need a handgun for either your job (eg. armoured truck wokers) or that your life is in danger and you feel that the police will not be able to protect you. I think that it is pretty safe to say that those who have been contributing to the Toronto gun violence problem did not acquire their firearms in this manner.
Its easy to say, "yes ban handguns, ban all guns for that matter". Big deal, it dosn't take illegal firearms off the street, nor does it solve the problem. It only creates the illustion that the government is trying to do something about it.
In my opinion there is only one way to stop the gun violence in Toronto, and that is a greater police presence and alot of investigation as to who is bringing illegal weapons across the boarder.
Its like painting over rust, unless you solve the problem its not gonna go away.
Banning handguns will do absolutely nothing to stop gun violence in Toronto. It is just another way to make it appear that the goverment has a solution to a problem, when in reality they don't.
Handguns are restricted firearms, and you need to apply for a permit to purchase one, and these permits are not given nearly as frequently as unresricted Firearms permits are.
You must be able to prove that you need a handgun for either your job (eg. armoured truck wokers) or that your life is in danger and you feel that the police will not be able to protect you. I think that it is pretty safe to say that those who have been contributing to the Toronto gun violence problem did not acquire their firearms in this manner.
Its easy to say, "yes ban handguns, ban all guns for that matter". Big deal, it dosn't take illegal firearms off the street, nor does it solve the problem. It only creates the illustion that the government is trying to do something about it.
In my opinion there is only one way to stop the gun violence in Toronto, and that is a greater police presence and alot of investigation as to who is bringing illegal weapons across the boarder.
Its like painting over rust, unless you solve the problem its not gonna go away.
Guns dont kill people, people (and bullets) do.
09-Dec-2005, 01:05 AM
#24
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^^ not really.
while i do agree that banning guns wont eliminate the problem. I do feel that it is a step in the right direction. Your right when you say oh guns dont kill people people kill people in that case there is no need for guns. if people are killing people then guns are not needed. WRONG. guns do kill people the only reason a gun exsists is to kill something. Not to wound it or to scare it. There is no meaning to a gun other then that its only purpose is to shoot a metal item thru its opening. Unlike any other weapon say a knife or hammer which both can be used to kill a person but they serve as different tools aswell ie. hammering nails, cutting meat, cutting wood etc....
Also i still feel that just because a person is a registered gun owner doesnt mean they cant kill someone. Look in the United States how many registered gun owners kill people.
while i do agree that banning guns wont eliminate the problem. I do feel that it is a step in the right direction. Your right when you say oh guns dont kill people people kill people in that case there is no need for guns. if people are killing people then guns are not needed. WRONG. guns do kill people the only reason a gun exsists is to kill something. Not to wound it or to scare it. There is no meaning to a gun other then that its only purpose is to shoot a metal item thru its opening. Unlike any other weapon say a knife or hammer which both can be used to kill a person but they serve as different tools aswell ie. hammering nails, cutting meat, cutting wood etc....
Also i still feel that just because a person is a registered gun owner doesnt mean they cant kill someone. Look in the United States how many registered gun owners kill people.
09-Dec-2005, 01:16 AM
#25
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heres something my girlfriend told me (from her psych class)
a person is 40% or so more likely to commit a crime if there is a gun present than if there isnt.
and a person is 200% more likely to act out on their anger if a gun is present than if a gun isnt present.
(not only guns, same goes for any weapons)
______________________
anyways... i still think that banning guns wont do anyhting, and i also think that people have the right to own a gun if they can prove themselves capable of owning one in a proper manner.
the REAL problem of guns is that they are getting into the hands of people who shouldnt have them (most of them are smuggled from the USA) so the border patrol should be getting more attention.
i know that i keep my gun kept very safely, as is my ammo.
a person is 40% or so more likely to commit a crime if there is a gun present than if there isnt.
and a person is 200% more likely to act out on their anger if a gun is present than if a gun isnt present.
(not only guns, same goes for any weapons)
______________________
anyways... i still think that banning guns wont do anyhting, and i also think that people have the right to own a gun if they can prove themselves capable of owning one in a proper manner.
the REAL problem of guns is that they are getting into the hands of people who shouldnt have them (most of them are smuggled from the USA) so the border patrol should be getting more attention.
i know that i keep my gun kept very safely, as is my ammo.
09-Dec-2005, 01:19 AM
#26
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Jay another great reply, but anyone of us has the potential to kill another person, go or no gun.
Out of the 50 or so shootings in TO this year, how many were commited by gun collectors or registered gun users? None probably. They were commited by thugs who get their guns from the US or the proceeds of other crimes in Canada. B&E's from shops or gun owners. Now if the owners didnt have the guns then the thugs couldnt steal them, but thats the catch.
Banning guns isnt the answer. Gun control, stiffer sentancing nd customs officers who actually do thier jobs and check people like they should.
My .2 anyway.
Out of the 50 or so shootings in TO this year, how many were commited by gun collectors or registered gun users? None probably. They were commited by thugs who get their guns from the US or the proceeds of other crimes in Canada. B&E's from shops or gun owners. Now if the owners didnt have the guns then the thugs couldnt steal them, but thats the catch.
Banning guns isnt the answer. Gun control, stiffer sentancing nd customs officers who actually do thier jobs and check people like they should.
My .2 anyway.
09-Dec-2005, 01:23 AM
#28
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Originally posted by DumbasSi
Gun control, stiffer sentancing nd customs officers who actually do thier jobs and check people like they should.
My .2 anyway.
Gun control, stiffer sentancing nd customs officers who actually do thier jobs and check people like they should.
My .2 anyway.
09-Dec-2005, 01:47 AM
#29
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Originally posted by DumbasSi
Jay another great reply, but anyone of us has the potential to kill another person, go or no gun.
Out of the 50 or so shootings in TO this year, how many were commited by gun collectors or registered gun users? None probably. They were commited by thugs who get their guns from the US or the proceeds of other crimes in Canada. B&E's from shops or gun owners. Now if the owners didnt have the guns then the thugs couldnt steal them, but thats the catch.
Banning guns isnt the answer. Gun control, stiffer sentancing nd customs officers who actually do thier jobs and check people like they should.
My .2 anyway.
Jay another great reply, but anyone of us has the potential to kill another person, go or no gun.
Out of the 50 or so shootings in TO this year, how many were commited by gun collectors or registered gun users? None probably. They were commited by thugs who get their guns from the US or the proceeds of other crimes in Canada. B&E's from shops or gun owners. Now if the owners didnt have the guns then the thugs couldnt steal them, but thats the catch.
Banning guns isnt the answer. Gun control, stiffer sentancing nd customs officers who actually do thier jobs and check people like they should.
My .2 anyway.
And i do agree that there probably was 0 gun violence done thru a person who was a registered gun owner.
But i guess what i am trying to say is that lets put this in a hypothetical way.....
Say all the rules where made and done and there are no longer gun crimes occuring in canada but the exception of gun's allowed for people who are registered exists... obvioulsy they are humans too and if they are the only ones who carry a gun that means they can potentially cause a crime that has to do with a gun...right? with that said wouldnt it be unfair to everyone else? because they are basically helpless against someone who is a registered gun owner?
another point is that (again hypothetical) say guns where eliminated and no longer is there any gun violence a registered gun owner shouldnt have a gun because thats considered exessive force. Like someone posted earlier to become a registered gun owner they either have to be in danger and not be able to be helped by police in order for them to own a gun. But no matter what danger they are in if there are no guns then they shouldnt have to protect themselves with a gun for self defence because if for example you came and punched me i can block myself from your punches and i have the right to punch you back in order for you to stop but if you punch me and i kick you really hard and for some reason you knocked out and ended up paralized you have the right to charge me even though you are the initiator because I used exessive force
you know what i am trying to say?
09-Dec-2005, 02:06 AM
#30
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^ i nkow what your trying to say.
there are definately a lot of things everyone can agree upon, but for sure everyone will want to do different things to fix problems
its got pretty bad and pretty much anything is good (compared to pretty much nothnig being done before)
there are definately a lot of things everyone can agree upon, but for sure everyone will want to do different things to fix problems
its got pretty bad and pretty much anything is good (compared to pretty much nothnig being done before)
09-Dec-2005, 11:01 AM
#31
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I've grown up with guns in the house as well, and look how well adjusted I turned out.
I'm all for strict sentencing for having an unregistered gun.
Banning handguns.. I don't agree with.. restricted firearm policy is good... does anyone know the percentage of guns purchased legally in canada used 'on the streets'?
If I had to pick, I'd much rather use an uzi to jack someone over a revolver or semi automatic myself.
I'd like to see some actual statistics if anyone has got. From my knowledge (which is severly limited on this subject) most guns used for illegal purposes are brought over through the states.
Dessert eagles from Israel are pretty popular as well?
Isn't it much better to get a gun before it's been given a serial number so the bullets cannot be traced to the gun? Or is it easy to get rid of the bullet imprints as well?
I'm all for strict sentencing for having an unregistered gun.
Banning handguns.. I don't agree with.. restricted firearm policy is good... does anyone know the percentage of guns purchased legally in canada used 'on the streets'?
If I had to pick, I'd much rather use an uzi to jack someone over a revolver or semi automatic myself.
I'd like to see some actual statistics if anyone has got. From my knowledge (which is severly limited on this subject) most guns used for illegal purposes are brought over through the states.
Dessert eagles from Israel are pretty popular as well?
Isn't it much better to get a gun before it's been given a serial number so the bullets cannot be traced to the gun? Or is it easy to get rid of the bullet imprints as well?
09-Dec-2005, 11:07 AM
#33
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The banning of handguns also includes 250 more rcmp specialists at boarders. I think its common sense to know that handguns aren't sold in stores. Actually look into what was said about the plan.
09-Dec-2005, 11:24 AM
#34
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you are right bruce
i wish we had some actual facts about how much crimes are commited using illegal handguns vs registered handguns
but im sure we can all agree that almost all the crimes are done with illegal smuggled guns
i wish we had some actual facts about how much crimes are commited using illegal handguns vs registered handguns
but im sure we can all agree that almost all the crimes are done with illegal smuggled guns
09-Dec-2005, 12:04 PM
#37
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hmm, alot of good points made in this thread but its got me thinkin...
Isnt it a crime to shoot a robber lets say for example if he enters your house to rob you? I think its only legal in the states to shoot someone on your property.. So I dont seee WHERE personal self defence comes into place.
Secondly...registered handguns? your kidding me right? Please dont use that as a defence...cuz if a freakin thug highschool dropout can get his hands on a 9mm ....do u not think that he could also get his hands on a document stating that its "registered"??? I truely do understand that someppl keep them for sentimental value or recreational purpose or work...I totally understand that and am for that..but like would u rather have the streets be safer? or have your firearm at home? I know for some ppl the streetcrimes barely affect you, but honestly..even if u witness one of these..u'lll give up your registered firearms for the better of the city if it was asked of you.
I pretty much think that letting ppl keep firearms cuz they are registered will loose its power very soon cuz thugs wont loose their guns...I mean its life n death for em...they will hide em..or get fake registration.
Id also like to point out something that d16y8 said "It is just another way to make it appear that the goverment has a solution to a problem, when in reality they don't." I think thats really tru..they know that if they make a promise and say the words "guns" and "banned" in it..they will get alotta votes.
Anyways ...I think the best thing to do is raise the sentense to a much longer sentence...and crack down on this crap alot harder.
I know its easy to just sit here at our computer and give ideas and make commments on how stuff should be done n all. I do think that yea the cops are doing a really good job, they are trying n stuff...this is just gonna take a while...but the first big step would be to lock them up for a while.
Isnt it a crime to shoot a robber lets say for example if he enters your house to rob you? I think its only legal in the states to shoot someone on your property.. So I dont seee WHERE personal self defence comes into place.
Secondly...registered handguns? your kidding me right? Please dont use that as a defence...cuz if a freakin thug highschool dropout can get his hands on a 9mm ....do u not think that he could also get his hands on a document stating that its "registered"??? I truely do understand that someppl keep them for sentimental value or recreational purpose or work...I totally understand that and am for that..but like would u rather have the streets be safer? or have your firearm at home? I know for some ppl the streetcrimes barely affect you, but honestly..even if u witness one of these..u'lll give up your registered firearms for the better of the city if it was asked of you.
I pretty much think that letting ppl keep firearms cuz they are registered will loose its power very soon cuz thugs wont loose their guns...I mean its life n death for em...they will hide em..or get fake registration.
Id also like to point out something that d16y8 said "It is just another way to make it appear that the goverment has a solution to a problem, when in reality they don't." I think thats really tru..they know that if they make a promise and say the words "guns" and "banned" in it..they will get alotta votes.
Anyways ...I think the best thing to do is raise the sentense to a much longer sentence...and crack down on this crap alot harder.
I know its easy to just sit here at our computer and give ideas and make commments on how stuff should be done n all. I do think that yea the cops are doing a really good job, they are trying n stuff...this is just gonna take a while...but the first big step would be to lock them up for a while.
09-Dec-2005, 12:04 PM
#38
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I do like the idea of banning handguns (or some kind of restrictions or something, because I don't think you really need a handgun for sport), and that excuse of "I need one for protection" is ****,....but I feel the benefit may not outway the cost, since like others have said, I think most of the crimes being commited with hand guns aren't being commited be people who are responsible and register thier guns, thier illegal guns being used by thugs...
