imported_gatherer

I could swear there have been cases in the news of women who have been raped (they were unmarried and had sex (against their will)) and these women were sentenced to death... I don't get that.. that seems very against womens rights if you ask me.. now if it was one case I could write it off as some crazy backwater tribe in Pakistan.. but when 3 or 4 cases of the same stuff hits mainstream media in a few months I really have to wonder...

imported_My93Civic

Islam has a very low view on women, even mohammad had very low views on women. 2 women = 1 man.

Anyways I just saw on the news, lol, many different places like Iraq, Afghanistan (2 shot dead and 13 injured?), Denmark, etc their are people burning up embassies, violent protesting. Geez....things are getting whacked.

imported_My93Civic

didn't we see this on the news a few months/years back? The women was raped, she even admitted it, but she was put on trial. What happened to her? Did she die?

imported_Mischev

again, that is not islam, that is sexist leadership, and cultural issues and islam does not support that.

taken from http://www.islamfortoday.com/ruqaiyyah09.htm

Anyone wishing to understand Islam must first separate the religion from the cultural norms and style of a society. Female genital mutilation is still practised in certain pockets of Africa and Egypt, but viewed as an inconceivable horror by the vast majority of Muslims. Forced marriages may still take place in certain Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities, but would be anathema to Muslim women from other backgrounds.

Indeed, Islam insists on the free consent of both bride and groom, so such marriages could even be deemed illegal under religious law.

A woman forbidden from driving a car in Riyadh will cheerfully take the wheel when abroad, confident that her country's bizarre law has nothing to do with Islam. Afghan women educated before the Taliban rule know that banning girls from school is forbidden in Islam, which encourages all Muslims to seek knowledge from cradle to grave, from every source possible.

again it is not my intention to insult any1 i'm just trying to clear up misconceptions.

imported_Mischev

i would love to see an islamic scripture which says that.

western news does not accurately portray islam. they cant even translate arabic properly on tv.

imported_gatherer

but these same leaders claim to be following islam. how can Islamic Clerics allow their faith to be disicrated (spelling I know) by these people. where is the schools of your faith in these matters?

I mean I'm not a Muslim, I don't really claim to be of any faith, however when I was young I was brought up Christian, and during the church service when the Minister would do his who boring Sermon the kids would be down stairs with teachers learning in an easier to understand evironment about the faith. does the Islamic faith have anything like this? I know there is a soft line Muslim faith out there and we have seen it in Canada. but it's this hard line Islamic fundamentalist that really has me worried.

Islamic Fundamentalism is also a term that has me worried about the group as a whole. THe mass Media is miss labeling these people. a fundamentalist is someone who believes int he core values of a religion. if that was the case these people wouldn't be blowing themselves up I don't think... I think what these people are is Islamic Fantics and there is a big difference between a Fundamentalist and a fantic.

I don't know much about the faith... but I do know that if the voilence continues to escalate the world powers will say "screw you" to all Muslims and then you have a situation in place where the majority of the world hates Muslims and this would be placing Muslims in the same situation as the Jews were placed in right before hilter rose to power, the world hated them, at First governments thought Hilter was just someone to be pasifed the war wasn't fought for the freedom of the Jews it was fought to bring down Hitler who had gotten too powerful.

The last thing the world needs is another Holocoust against another group of people.

imported_My93Civic

We see two faces of Islam. The ones blowing up people in the name of "allah", their god.

And the other group of islam is detesting what these people have done.

Which one is the real islam? You would be surprised to know that it is the first. They are more real followers of islam than the later, since they are following what mohammad had done.

islam has a plan. they have a plan to dominate the world. and they are acutally doing it very cleverly. islam in Canada has so many support and protections now, its really out of this world.

imported_My93Civic

[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense.[5]

The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said: “Yes.” He said: “This is because of the deficiency of her mind.”[6]

[5] Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 142.

[6] Sahih Al-Bukhari, Dr. Muhammad Matraji, tr. (New Delhi: Islamic Book Service, 2002), Number 2658.

imported_JusBlaze

lol u got Jih0wn3d

imported_Mischev

if u had half a brain about what u were tlaking about...u would know that the books your are quoting have volumes and neumbers..u have provided only the numbers, i have the books at home so if u can provide the volume number , i will cross reference.

thank you.

LEITNER

uh, i think muslims do not properly portray islam. we interpret what we see, if muslims want to change the way the world see's islam then the muslims should take control of their own. how many times do muslims use Jesus name in vain? i guess they think thats ok. maybe we should burn something to feel better.

imported_Mischev

the fact that all we see on tv is the bad things muslims do, is obviously what people will think of them...right?

when was the last time u saw sumthing good about muslims on english television

imported_Mischev

doublw post, sorry

LEITNER

when are people ever remembered for the good things when they do evil at the sametime? will bush be remember as a good president or a nut job from texas who invaded a country against the worlds decision not too.

imported_Mischev

3

i agree with you, i cannot justify killing innocent poeple, and i'm not in the middle east so i cannot jusgde the jews or palestinians who are fighting

i dont know my relegion inside out so i dont see my self qulified to answer a lot of these questions (should i answer one wrong, i beleive i would fall into sin).

so should any1 wish to speak to sum more knowlegdable than me, fel free to PM me and i can refer you to sum who knows more than me.

imported_My93Civic

the first one is Book 001, Number 0142: Chapter 35...Chapter 35: DIMINUTION OF IMAN BY FAILING IN SUBMISSION AND THE USE OF THE WORD" KUFR" FOR THINGS BESIDES UNBELIEF OF ALLAH, FOR EXAMPLE UNGRATEFULNESS AND INGRATITUDE

the 2nd one is Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826

imported_Mischev

^thanks i'll look it up,

imported_Mischev

i did in fact find those in my books, however after talking to a scholar, he told me that the translation of the prophets words are not entirely accurate and he reffered me to this:

REGARDING THE SAYING OF THE PROPHET

Here is a correct translation of one of the texts reported by Abu Sai‘d Khudri:
[The Prophet (sws) while talking to a group of women once said]: … and I have seen you rob even a wise man of his senses in spite of being given relaxation in worldly affairs and religious affairs, They said: O Allah's Messenger, what is this relaxation? He said: Is not the evidence of a woman equal to half of a man's. They said: Yes. He said: This is the relaxation given to them in worldly affairs. He said: Is it not a fact that when they enter the period of menses they neither observe prayer nor observe fast. They said: Yes. Whereupon he said: This is the relaxation given to them in religious affairs. (Muslim, Kitab al-Iman)
The Arabic phrase Naqisat al-'Aql wa al-Din has generally been translated as "faulty" keeping in view the Urdu meaning of the word. However, in Arabic, the verb Naqasa means "to reduce" and the correct translation of the above phrase, if the context is also taken into consideration, is that women have been given a relief and reduction in their worldly and religious duties.
The relief in worldly responsibilities, as is mentioned in this Hadith, is that women have not been dragged in certain activities and spheres. For example, the Qur'an urges men to testify on legal documents so that women are relieved of appearing in courts and wasting their precious time on affairs which others can handle. Only if men are not available should a society involve women in such affairs.
The relief women have been given in religious affairs is that they are not required to pray or fast during their monthly periods as is mentioned in this Hadith.

Taken from: http://www.renaissance.com.pk/mayq994.html

Regarding this issue you may also want to read: http://www.understanding-islam.org/r...estion&qid=540

imported_Mischev

i saw what i a tough time you had defending your religion a while back, i'm not really up to the task, me beleivng in my faith is good enough for me...thanks

if i wanted a multi faith discussion i would have joined a multi faith forum.

Brett

I don't think its proper for you guys to point out passages in the Koran that support your views of Islam. I could open up the bible and pull out some pretty harsh passages supporting pretty much anything i want. This doesn't make them ture or that all people of a certian religion feel this way. Have you ever read the bible? I've read the 1st to books (even though i don't consider myself christian) and if we took the statements in there at face value....