don't jihad me...
17-Feb-2006, 11:35 PM
#101
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so if i have a peaceful protest saying i don't want people wearing religious idols in public because it's offensive to my religion, which I will call "logic" am I right to start killing everyone saying they can define a metaphysical being because it deeply offends me?
Regardless of your views, I do not think I am justified in any way to physically harm you. I may choose not to do business with you, or associate with you, but in no way do I believe I am justified in attacking you.
My personal belief is that violence is justified for two things.
1. Defense
2. Retaliation to a real threat
Making fun of me does not give me the right. If you had a kid, and another kid walked up to him and said "you are a caca poo poo head and your mother is a dirty ****, I hope your family dies of starvation" do you think it is right for your kid to take a rock and smash him in the head?
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The Denmark government is not the Danish newspaper.
There is a separation of religion and government. The jihads don't seem to understand that.
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The more I see and hear, the more I understand why hermits exist.
Regardless of your views, I do not think I am justified in any way to physically harm you. I may choose not to do business with you, or associate with you, but in no way do I believe I am justified in attacking you.
My personal belief is that violence is justified for two things.
1. Defense
2. Retaliation to a real threat
Making fun of me does not give me the right. If you had a kid, and another kid walked up to him and said "you are a caca poo poo head and your mother is a dirty ****, I hope your family dies of starvation" do you think it is right for your kid to take a rock and smash him in the head?
----------------------
The Denmark government is not the Danish newspaper.
There is a separation of religion and government. The jihads don't seem to understand that.
----------------------
The more I see and hear, the more I understand why hermits exist.
18-Feb-2006, 09:44 AM
#102
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Originally posted by Bruce Fee
If I am wrong may god strike me down today. I challenge him. I am his superior as I will not let him.
If I am wrong may god strike me down today. I challenge him. I am his superior as I will not let him.
So that won't happen.
18-Feb-2006, 09:46 AM
#103
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Originally posted by szuberi
My93civic
You really took some long time to say all that. It seems to me like a school or a church lesson. While you and many other christians believe that christianity is the only true religion....there are lots of ppl of other faith that believe in their religion in the same way you do.
The lack of protest on part of the christians when somebody pokes fun at Jesus does not mean that all christians are ultra cool people. It simply means that most of them have been raised with the belief that the church and state are separate from each other and if you protest out in the street with a show of force, it will be against the law. Its the local law of hte land that prevents them. At the same time, any disrespect being poked at Jesus will go unabated in the name of freedome of press and speech.
In the muslim world, there isnt any separation b/w the two so muslims protested this way and i dont blame any one of them. There hasnt been a single material statement renouncing these cartoons from either Denmark or specially the world police dog..the US which has further fueled the situation.
Democracy is fine but there are limits. There is a limit to everything...the west has been feeding on the oil from the muslim states for a long time and its high time that they should start respecting their religion and their ppl.
I do regret the violence but you see...peaceful protest will not go too far. Its like i come and start cursing you in front of your family and friends and expect you to stay shut up. No....you have all the right to come and smack me down.
Peace
My93civic
You really took some long time to say all that. It seems to me like a school or a church lesson. While you and many other christians believe that christianity is the only true religion....there are lots of ppl of other faith that believe in their religion in the same way you do.
The lack of protest on part of the christians when somebody pokes fun at Jesus does not mean that all christians are ultra cool people. It simply means that most of them have been raised with the belief that the church and state are separate from each other and if you protest out in the street with a show of force, it will be against the law. Its the local law of hte land that prevents them. At the same time, any disrespect being poked at Jesus will go unabated in the name of freedome of press and speech.
In the muslim world, there isnt any separation b/w the two so muslims protested this way and i dont blame any one of them. There hasnt been a single material statement renouncing these cartoons from either Denmark or specially the world police dog..the US which has further fueled the situation.
Democracy is fine but there are limits. There is a limit to everything...the west has been feeding on the oil from the muslim states for a long time and its high time that they should start respecting their religion and their ppl.
I do regret the violence but you see...peaceful protest will not go too far. Its like i come and start cursing you in front of your family and friends and expect you to stay shut up. No....you have all the right to come and smack me down.
Peace
18-Feb-2006, 09:51 AM
#104
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Re: h
Originally posted by 94-SI-COUPE
just for the ppl that dont know.
-there are over 600 diff. version christian beliefs just in the US
- the bible has been tampered with edited so many times that u have numerous version's like NJB new jerusalem bible, NRSV new revised standard version, NIV New international version,NKJ New King James Version, LB The Living Bible, RS Revised Standard Version, NAS New American Standard Version,NC New Century Version and tons more...
from my point of view the true meaning of the bible including the Old test. (TORAH) has been lost due to the dissections, studies and diff. sects made by christians
- from what i think Jesus was not sent to create a new religion he was a jew himself and came to get the jews of jerusalem to the right path and they themselves crucified him.
- if 2.1 billion christian can keep thier cool it can also mean they dont care anymore, im not saying they dont but that could be a possible reason. i hope im not offending any christian's from TCC
-anyway the cartoons were published i think in sep. the denmark authorities were confronted abt it, what did they do they did not listen. They published them again giving it the name of "freedom of speech" (not when you are making fun of one's beliefs.)
- the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) is a figure in islam that every muslim follows or atleast tries to follow. he is the last prophet(P.B.U.H.) from the many Allah (god) had sent which includes Moses, Abraham, Jesus, and many more.
- i dont think its wrong for the muslim's to protest against drawing cartoon's but it should be done in a peacefull manner not burning buildings.
mad respect goes to szuberi from me for sticking up for the UMMAH!!
if anyone is opposed of the the danish newspaper drawing the cartoons call 416 870 4444 CITYTV poll line
you can also sign a petition at:
javascript
l('http://www.petitiononline.com/islamic/petition.html');
http://www.petitiononline.com/islamic/petition.html
just for the ppl that dont know.
-there are over 600 diff. version christian beliefs just in the US
- the bible has been tampered with edited so many times that u have numerous version's like NJB new jerusalem bible, NRSV new revised standard version, NIV New international version,NKJ New King James Version, LB The Living Bible, RS Revised Standard Version, NAS New American Standard Version,NC New Century Version and tons more...
from my point of view the true meaning of the bible including the Old test. (TORAH) has been lost due to the dissections, studies and diff. sects made by christians
- from what i think Jesus was not sent to create a new religion he was a jew himself and came to get the jews of jerusalem to the right path and they themselves crucified him.
- if 2.1 billion christian can keep thier cool it can also mean they dont care anymore, im not saying they dont but that could be a possible reason. i hope im not offending any christian's from TCC
-anyway the cartoons were published i think in sep. the denmark authorities were confronted abt it, what did they do they did not listen. They published them again giving it the name of "freedom of speech" (not when you are making fun of one's beliefs.)
- the Prophet (P.B.U.H.) is a figure in islam that every muslim follows or atleast tries to follow. he is the last prophet(P.B.U.H.) from the many Allah (god) had sent which includes Moses, Abraham, Jesus, and many more.
- i dont think its wrong for the muslim's to protest against drawing cartoon's but it should be done in a peacefull manner not burning buildings.
mad respect goes to szuberi from me for sticking up for the UMMAH!!
if anyone is opposed of the the danish newspaper drawing the cartoons call 416 870 4444 CITYTV poll line
you can also sign a petition at:
javascript
l('http://www.petitiononline.com/islamic/petition.html');http://www.petitiononline.com/islamic/petition.html
Like the other poster said, its ignorance thats the problem. Not knowing anything of the subject and saying it.
18-Feb-2006, 09:54 AM
#105
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Originally posted by szuberi
94 SI
I actually wanted to talk about the various versions of the Bible in my posting but i refrained because i thought it might upset some ppl here. None the less...it is true while the Holy Quran is the only book which is still present in its original form to this day.
There were are a few ppl who passed some direct and inappropriate remarks against muslims and Islams in general earlier on in this forum. I wanted to respond but didnt because i dont want confrontation. This is not a religious forum or site.....but it just shows their hypocricy and im sure they will say...its freedom of speech bulls**t.
I openly challenge anyone to have a convincing and respectful argument on this topic. I will try my best to explain the facts and urge everyone to refrain from getting emotional (although this is hard) and have a meaningful debate.
Peace
94 SI
I actually wanted to talk about the various versions of the Bible in my posting but i refrained because i thought it might upset some ppl here. None the less...it is true while the Holy Quran is the only book which is still present in its original form to this day.
There were are a few ppl who passed some direct and inappropriate remarks against muslims and Islams in general earlier on in this forum. I wanted to respond but didnt because i dont want confrontation. This is not a religious forum or site.....but it just shows their hypocricy and im sure they will say...its freedom of speech bulls**t.
I openly challenge anyone to have a convincing and respectful argument on this topic. I will try my best to explain the facts and urge everyone to refrain from getting emotional (although this is hard) and have a meaningful debate.
Peace
the reason why there are many Bibles are because each of them are for a specific generation/era/group but they are the same essence of the original. There is a very specific method to which they have been translated.
so translating the Bible from schools to books, Hewbrew to English deems it changed. Thats messed. I've seen the koran translated into english.
18-Feb-2006, 09:57 AM
#106
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Re: Re: h
i actually know the stuff i am talking about thats why i wrote it down by the way i am doing a minor in religion. therefore i know my **** , these are the word's of Robert Campbell PHD in religion's at UFT. u should come and sit in my GOSPEL's lecture.
Originally posted by My93Civic
so much junk info in this post.
Like the other poster said, its ignorance thats the problem. Not knowing anything of the subject and saying it.
so much junk info in this post.
Like the other poster said, its ignorance thats the problem. Not knowing anything of the subject and saying it.
18-Feb-2006, 09:57 AM
#107
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Originally posted by LEITNER
to be like Christ is the goal of Christianity. if you have the love of Christ in your heart and are changed by it than it is only natural that you will do things for the good of others. Christ came to be a servant that we would follow His example and love others more than ourselves. i will look up the beattitudes in Matthew so you can see.
to be like Christ is the goal of Christianity. if you have the love of Christ in your heart and are changed by it than it is only natural that you will do things for the good of others. Christ came to be a servant that we would follow His example and love others more than ourselves. i will look up the beattitudes in Matthew so you can see.
Matthew 5
The Beatitudes
1 Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him,
2 and he began to teach them saying:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
18-Feb-2006, 10:04 AM
#108
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Originally posted by My93Civic
falisfied statement in the koran being never changed.
the reason why there are many Bibles are because each of them are for a specific generation/era/group but they are the same essence of the original. There is a very specific method to which they have been translated.
so translating the Bible from schools to books, Hewbrew to English deems it changed. Thats messed. I've seen the koran translated into english.
falisfied statement in the koran being never changed.
the reason why there are many Bibles are because each of them are for a specific generation/era/group but they are the same essence of the original. There is a very specific method to which they have been translated.
so translating the Bible from schools to books, Hewbrew to English deems it changed. Thats messed. I've seen the koran translated into english.
yes its true that its been translated into english but that is not the true meaning of the text. its stated by the writer's of the translations that the true meaning of Qur'an is in arabic not English. the true meaning of the Qur'an lies in the Arabic text as it was laid out. a text can never be translated as it can only be transliterrated meaning that you can state that the text can mean a certain statement but not necessarily. because the english language that we speak contains a very small vocabulary compared to hebrew, arabic or any other language.
18-Feb-2006, 10:30 AM
#109
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people are the problem period. muslims blow up buildings and treat woman poorly. christianity has done equaly horific things ie: the holy crusades way back when. people get it in their heads that God said to do something and they do it regardless of the consequences. muslims and christians believe in the same God (the father). they both preach peace, to love one another and servanthood. so where is the problem? like i said before, people.
maybe if people spent more time as servants to others and the less fortunate instead of looking for ways to further their cause, the world might just be a better place to live.
maybe if people spent more time as servants to others and the less fortunate instead of looking for ways to further their cause, the world might just be a better place to live.
18-Feb-2006, 01:40 PM
#110
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Lot of people seem to have impaired thinking here. The reason is too much exposure to media, newspapers, radio, internet etc. Your minds are controlled by the people sittiing above you meaning governements and other higher powers. They can aggrevate you, make you happy, put your minds too sleep or makie you dumb for life becuase they need your minds for their own benefit and, they are successful in doing so because very few people nowadays think before saying anything. The rest have lost the ability to think or they were born impaired.
If you hear something in news or read some article online or someone tells you about something, just try to make sense out of it first. If it seems right to you, its alright then. You are an individual and you have thre right to think or say whatever you want. But, stop ****ing yamming your opinions over other members point of views. Respect other peoples opinion. Like this the atmosphgere will stay peaceful.
If you hear something in news or read some article online or someone tells you about something, just try to make sense out of it first. If it seems right to you, its alright then. You are an individual and you have thre right to think or say whatever you want. But, stop ****ing yamming your opinions over other members point of views. Respect other peoples opinion. Like this the atmosphgere will stay peaceful.
18-Feb-2006, 09:19 PM
#112
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Originally posted by LEITNER
people are the problem period. muslims blow up buildings and treat woman poorly. christianity has done equaly horific things ie: the holy crusades way back when. people get it in their heads that God said to do something and they do it regardless of the consequences. muslims and christians believe in the same God (the father). they both preach peace, to love one another and servanthood. so where is the problem? like i said before, people.
maybe if people spent more time as servants to others and the less fortunate instead of looking for ways to further their cause, the world might just be a better place to live.
people are the problem period. muslims blow up buildings and treat woman poorly. christianity has done equaly horific things ie: the holy crusades way back when. people get it in their heads that God said to do something and they do it regardless of the consequences. muslims and christians believe in the same God (the father). they both preach peace, to love one another and servanthood. so where is the problem? like i said before, people.
maybe if people spent more time as servants to others and the less fortunate instead of looking for ways to further their cause, the world might just be a better place to live.
18-Feb-2006, 11:10 PM
#113
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I get angry, and a person who believes in Jesus gets angry. I calm myself down because I don't think being angry can solve the issue. I find a way to be rational.
The other person prayed, and he said the prayer calmed him down and he wasn't angry no more.
If I can calm myself down without any aid of religious belief, why can't the other person? What is that person lacking? Self belief?
The other person prayed, and he said the prayer calmed him down and he wasn't angry no more.
If I can calm myself down without any aid of religious belief, why can't the other person? What is that person lacking? Self belief?
18-Feb-2006, 11:30 PM
#114
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Wow bruce, you have really opened up an exploding can of worms with this one. I tend to agree with Jibran a few posts back.
People may accuse me of being too cospiracy minded but here is my two cents.
I don't think that attention has been brought to these cartoons without the help of a media backed with a political agenda. Everyday across Europe the Middle East and North America offensive things are published. If protesting occurs from Muslims in London, but the UK press neglects to mention it in their coverage, it will tend to get overlooked and will not ****** to neighbouring regions. If you feel personally affected by all of this, you are a victim of some grand political agenda.
If we, in the west are being persuaded to have quarrels with Muslims, then maybe the current controversial events like Iranian nuclear inspection seem justified to ram down Iranians people's throats.
My point is that if you allow yourself to be worked into a frenzy by what you hear in the news, you may be allowing yourself to be pawned into passivity on more important issues.
It's like NFL football and American Idol for Americans, it distracts them from what is really going on in the world.
Isn't it riduculous that such a cartoon issue would cause such world controversy, maybe they were designed too?
Too accept this issue as a matter of human rights is a fallacy. The real injustice is the undue media emphasis on such a trivial issue.
People may accuse me of being too cospiracy minded but here is my two cents.
I don't think that attention has been brought to these cartoons without the help of a media backed with a political agenda. Everyday across Europe the Middle East and North America offensive things are published. If protesting occurs from Muslims in London, but the UK press neglects to mention it in their coverage, it will tend to get overlooked and will not ****** to neighbouring regions. If you feel personally affected by all of this, you are a victim of some grand political agenda.
If we, in the west are being persuaded to have quarrels with Muslims, then maybe the current controversial events like Iranian nuclear inspection seem justified to ram down Iranians people's throats.
My point is that if you allow yourself to be worked into a frenzy by what you hear in the news, you may be allowing yourself to be pawned into passivity on more important issues.
It's like NFL football and American Idol for Americans, it distracts them from what is really going on in the world.
Isn't it riduculous that such a cartoon issue would cause such world controversy, maybe they were designed too?
Too accept this issue as a matter of human rights is a fallacy. The real injustice is the undue media emphasis on such a trivial issue.
19-Feb-2006, 04:10 AM
#115
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Originally posted by My93Civic
muslims, and christians believe in a different God. people are just to dumb to see that.
muslims, and christians believe in a different God. people are just to dumb to see that.
21-Feb-2006, 02:06 PM
#116
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Leitner...let me correct you here. Muslims do believe in the existence of Jesus and also the fact that he was born to Mary. What they do not believe is that he was the son of God and this is where the fundamental difference lies b/w christians and muslims.
Nick....it is intuitive to ask why such a big controversy? The answer is the total lack of regard and respect on part of the western media / govts. to educate their subjects and to help them understand the beliefs in the Islamic system.
Just like bible explicitly tells what is right and what is wrong to christians...the same way the Quran tells what is right and wrong to the muslims and when it comes to the Prophet, it is blasphemy to draw him, show him in any shape or form..let alone poke such lousy fun at him.
You have to understand that this is a fundamental belief held sacred by all muslims in the world.
In the end...i just wanna say....why come up with something (knowingly) so malicious that can create such a big controversy around the world and all in the name of freedom of speech.
Nick....it is intuitive to ask why such a big controversy? The answer is the total lack of regard and respect on part of the western media / govts. to educate their subjects and to help them understand the beliefs in the Islamic system.
Just like bible explicitly tells what is right and what is wrong to christians...the same way the Quran tells what is right and wrong to the muslims and when it comes to the Prophet, it is blasphemy to draw him, show him in any shape or form..let alone poke such lousy fun at him.
You have to understand that this is a fundamental belief held sacred by all muslims in the world.
In the end...i just wanna say....why come up with something (knowingly) so malicious that can create such a big controversy around the world and all in the name of freedom of speech.
21-Feb-2006, 02:24 PM
#118
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it's not malicious because it's not a sin for a non-believer.
someone wiping their @ss with any religious book/icon to me means nothing... to another it means something...
freedom of speech is important. if a person/society cannot understand that it is part of the western world and that is important that we are able express ourselves however we wish, without regard to the feelings and emotions of others, I with them nothing but exile.
go away. you're not wanted.
if i start a religion saying batman is blasphemous, and i get a lot of join.. are we justified in going to the batman hall of fame and blowing it up?
someone wiping their @ss with any religious book/icon to me means nothing... to another it means something...
freedom of speech is important. if a person/society cannot understand that it is part of the western world and that is important that we are able express ourselves however we wish, without regard to the feelings and emotions of others, I with them nothing but exile.
go away. you're not wanted.
if i start a religion saying batman is blasphemous, and i get a lot of join.. are we justified in going to the batman hall of fame and blowing it up?
21-Feb-2006, 03:06 PM
#119
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For me...being a non-believer is a sin. You do what you believe and i will do what i believe.
Wish you went to church on sunday more when u were a kid and somebody had taught you to respect other religions and their followers around you. If you look closely, you are the one who is not really wanted, not me.
Wish you went to church on sunday more when u were a kid and somebody had taught you to respect other religions and their followers around you. If you look closely, you are the one who is not really wanted, not me.
21-Feb-2006, 04:00 PM
#120
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Originally posted by szuberi
For me...being a non-believer is a sin. You do what you believe and i will do what i believe.
Wish you went to church on sunday more when u were a kid and somebody had taught you to respect other religions and their followers around you. If you look closely, you are the one who is not really wanted, not me.
For me...being a non-believer is a sin. You do what you believe and i will do what i believe.
Wish you went to church on sunday more when u were a kid and somebody had taught you to respect other religions and their followers around you. If you look closely, you are the one who is not really wanted, not me.
