Madness In the Middle East
17-Jul-2006 | 01:52 AM
#1
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Photographer's Corner
Madness In the Middle East
I dont intend to spark a big argument here but it looks like things are really going bad over there.
Over 130 ppl are already killed on both sides...and an end doesnt seem close.
While i agree that every nation has the right to defend its people and its property....in the current situation...it applies to the countries israel is attacking and fighting against. They kidnapped 4-5 of their troops while israelis hold around a few hundred of their prisoners.
its hard for me to stay neutral here....such use of lethal force doesnt make sense at all...and good old as* Bush did what was expected of him....vetoed the UN resolution that was the only quick way to atleast some initial resoltion.
If people of palestine and lebanon are deemed as terrorists by israel and america..then to them....these countries and their foreign polices are the same evil...nothing less.
you shed my blood and i shed yours...WTF....that is no solution....its just frustrating.
its good to see italy, france and russia now mediating with some logical and balanced response.
i just hope for peace.
Over 130 ppl are already killed on both sides...and an end doesnt seem close.
While i agree that every nation has the right to defend its people and its property....in the current situation...it applies to the countries israel is attacking and fighting against. They kidnapped 4-5 of their troops while israelis hold around a few hundred of their prisoners.
its hard for me to stay neutral here....such use of lethal force doesnt make sense at all...and good old as* Bush did what was expected of him....vetoed the UN resolution that was the only quick way to atleast some initial resoltion.
If people of palestine and lebanon are deemed as terrorists by israel and america..then to them....these countries and their foreign polices are the same evil...nothing less.
you shed my blood and i shed yours...WTF....that is no solution....its just frustrating.
its good to see italy, france and russia now mediating with some logical and balanced response.
i just hope for peace.
17-Jul-2006 | 07:35 AM
#3
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,462
From: In a JDM world
Re: Madness In the Middle East
Originally posted by szuberi
I dont intend to spark a big argument here but it looks like things are really going bad over there.
Over 130 ppl are already killed on both sides...and an end doesnt seem close.
While i agree that every nation has the right to defend its people and its property....in the current situation...it applies to the countries israel is attacking and fighting against. They kidnapped 4-5 of their troops while israelis hold around a few hundred of their prisoners.
its hard for me to stay neutral here....such use of lethal force doesnt make sense at all...and good old as* Bush did what was expected of him....vetoed the UN resolution that was the only quick way to atleast some initial resoltion.
If people of palestine and lebanon are deemed as terrorists by israel and america..then to them....these countries and their foreign polices are the same evil...nothing less.
you shed my blood and i shed yours...WTF....that is no solution....its just frustrating.
its good to see italy, france and russia now mediating with some logical and balanced response.
i just hope for peace.
I dont intend to spark a big argument here but it looks like things are really going bad over there.
Over 130 ppl are already killed on both sides...and an end doesnt seem close.
While i agree that every nation has the right to defend its people and its property....in the current situation...it applies to the countries israel is attacking and fighting against. They kidnapped 4-5 of their troops while israelis hold around a few hundred of their prisoners.
its hard for me to stay neutral here....such use of lethal force doesnt make sense at all...and good old as* Bush did what was expected of him....vetoed the UN resolution that was the only quick way to atleast some initial resoltion.
If people of palestine and lebanon are deemed as terrorists by israel and america..then to them....these countries and their foreign polices are the same evil...nothing less.
you shed my blood and i shed yours...WTF....that is no solution....its just frustrating.
its good to see italy, france and russia now mediating with some logical and balanced response.
i just hope for peace.
Let me start by some numbers:
Gaza Strip----1.4 million residents in an area of 360 km˛. -(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip) read!
100 000 Palestinians lost their jobs after Isreal closed the borders so now what's unemployment up to? 100%??
The Golan Heights-are a plateau on the border of Israel, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. Israel captured the Heights from Syria in the 1967 Six-Day War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights) read
So basiclally Isreal's right to exist is based on attacking and opressing other nations/people. You see you can only hold someone down for so long, before they want out! Can you imagine being 20+ years of age, never having had a job, not having much of a education, not being able to move freely, not being able to leave the country to find refugee in another country in order to live, work and survive? That's what the Palistinians have been going through since 67. I see it kind of like a genicoide. If you read old books even as old as the bible you read about Palistine, where is Palistine on today's map?
17-Jul-2006 | 10:15 AM
#4
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From: Photographer's Corner
yeah....this has been going for too long.....as long as the israelis occupy the land....there is all the reason in the world for the struggle to continue....call me a ********* if i am kicking your a** after you occupy my back yard...i dont have a problem.
israel stands pretty much nowhere without US support....and talking of US hypocricy....at one end they talk of peace and the other...sell weapons and arms to israel every year. and by doing so...screwing up the balance of power in the region....
I believe that there are no friends in politics...there are only interests....US interest in the region is the vast natural resources or access to them...oil etc. and through israel and the illegal iraq war....they are trying to grab things up.
this seems like the run up to WW2 all over again to me....when the ***** conspired against the polish jews that the land belonged to them....
israel stands pretty much nowhere without US support....and talking of US hypocricy....at one end they talk of peace and the other...sell weapons and arms to israel every year. and by doing so...screwing up the balance of power in the region....
I believe that there are no friends in politics...there are only interests....US interest in the region is the vast natural resources or access to them...oil etc. and through israel and the illegal iraq war....they are trying to grab things up.
this seems like the run up to WW2 all over again to me....when the ***** conspired against the polish jews that the land belonged to them....
17-Jul-2006 | 10:21 AM
#5
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,394
From: scarborough
i don't think israel should have been taken away from the arabs. the jewish "israeli" people were using the '*********" tactics to get it themselves.
I was happy when I saw the movie "Munich" that they mentioned that, and that it wasn't too biased.
as long as we have nationalism, we will have war.
I personally don't understand the concept. Wow, you're proud to be of nation A. What the **** did you do that relates to it?
if the Toronto Maple Leafs win, do you feel happy living in Toronto? It's not like you are a part of the team, or personally know any of them....
The Chinese people are currently taking over Canada peacefully and properly... why couldn't they have done the same?
In my opinion, the middle east has to many people of the old world spewing forth 'knowledge' and advice that your grandmother would give you on a nuclear reactor. Put a bowl of water in the middle of room at night and you'll be better in the morning. I read in a book if you massage your scalp for 5 minutes every morning and every night, your hair will grow more. god exists and i will describe him to you. we are better then them.
I was happy when I saw the movie "Munich" that they mentioned that, and that it wasn't too biased.
as long as we have nationalism, we will have war.
I personally don't understand the concept. Wow, you're proud to be of nation A. What the **** did you do that relates to it?
if the Toronto Maple Leafs win, do you feel happy living in Toronto? It's not like you are a part of the team, or personally know any of them....
The Chinese people are currently taking over Canada peacefully and properly... why couldn't they have done the same?
In my opinion, the middle east has to many people of the old world spewing forth 'knowledge' and advice that your grandmother would give you on a nuclear reactor. Put a bowl of water in the middle of room at night and you'll be better in the morning. I read in a book if you massage your scalp for 5 minutes every morning and every night, your hair will grow more. god exists and i will describe him to you. we are better then them.
17-Jul-2006 | 11:41 AM
#6
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Posts: 1,854
Originally posted by Bruce Fee
The Chinese people are currently taking over Canada peacefully and properly... why couldn't they have done the same?
The Chinese people are currently taking over Canada peacefully and properly... why couldn't they have done the same?
There's always madness in the middle east..so i dont care anymore.
17-Jul-2006 | 12:23 PM
#7
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Posts: 1,731
From: Mississauga
Originally posted by szuberi
yeah....this has been going for too long.....as long as the israelis occupy the land....there is all the reason in the world for the struggle to continue....call me a ********* if i am kicking your a** after you occupy my back yard...i dont have a problem.
israel stands pretty much nowhere without US support....and talking of US hypocricy....at one end they talk of peace and the other...sell weapons and arms to israel every year. and by doing so...screwing up the balance of power in the region....
yeah....this has been going for too long.....as long as the israelis occupy the land....there is all the reason in the world for the struggle to continue....call me a ********* if i am kicking your a** after you occupy my back yard...i dont have a problem.
israel stands pretty much nowhere without US support....and talking of US hypocricy....at one end they talk of peace and the other...sell weapons and arms to israel every year. and by doing so...screwing up the balance of power in the region....
Thats exactly the problem...the US and UK support Israel's actions 100%....while the Palestinians are defending themselves the only way possible, they are labeled as terrorists....
the end result which the US wants to accomplish is for the Arab countries to recognize Israel's right to exist with no stipulations....
Along side their other wishes; stop ********* attacks against Israel, and oppress the Arab people living in that region....
The balance of power in that region is rediculous....Israel has the equivalence of the US army in terms of machinery, battle ships, fighter jets...etc....whereas the Palestinians have nothing more than homemade rockets, RPGs and some AK 47. But the US would like to have ppl believe they are terrorists....
As Szuberi said....if you have been living an oppressed life with no education and freedom, you are bound to rebel...and seeing how the land belongs to the Palestinians, as History dictates....I don't c why they cannot defend themselves to secure their homeland once again....they are not terrorists...they are just "defending themselves".....as Bush said about Israel defending itself....
17-Jul-2006 | 12:33 PM
#8
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Posts: 1,357
From: H.O.
the biggest issue of debate is the land seizure in 1967... if you speak to many palestinians, the original borders decided in 1948 were tolerated (notice i didn't say accepted)
if you would like to read about somthing that pretty much gets blacked out in the news here in North America...
read about the 82 massacre lead by (then) military leader Ariel Sharon....hundreds of Palestinian woman raped, men tortured/ killed
82 Massacre Sabra and Shantila
the popular media would have us believe that it was a result of Lebanese Christian militants, but really the Israelis had a huge hand in this massacre, but it's nice to have a scapegoat (the Lebanese)
if you would like to read about somthing that pretty much gets blacked out in the news here in North America...
read about the 82 massacre lead by (then) military leader Ariel Sharon....hundreds of Palestinian woman raped, men tortured/ killed
82 Massacre Sabra and Shantila
the popular media would have us believe that it was a result of Lebanese Christian militants, but really the Israelis had a huge hand in this massacre, but it's nice to have a scapegoat (the Lebanese)
17-Jul-2006 | 12:58 PM
#13
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846
From: on a race track
it won't be a World war....
it will be a regional conflict and I do fear it will continue to spiral out of control. in a situation like this you need cool heads to prevail and the middle east as a whole doesn't have cool heads.
Anyways I don't think either side is right.
For example, After building the barricade with the gaza strip and having a tight border there Isreal should of released it's political prisoners as a sign of good faith.
At the same time the Palistinians living in Gaza strip shouldn't of crossed the border and kidnapped Isreali forces, and should of worked towards a peaceful resolution with Isreal.
Also I don't see an issue with a barricade at the border with the strip. USA has one that they are expanding With Mexico and are looking into building one with the border with Canada. Many Countries have invested in Border Fences and security measures. Isreal is not alone in this action.
At the same time I find it wierd that a nation would deny the existant of another nation that shares borders with it. Hello, they built a great big security fence you have to be able to see that. The Nation that doesn't exist also has a bunch of military along the border and if you don't notice that you are either blind or stupid. The level of arrogance and intolerance is baffling. it's on the same level as Canada denying the existance of the USA.
in the end I think it'll remain a regional conflict, but the USA might try to step in and control the situation because this is driving up oil prices and that really hurts the USA. they already have troops pre-positioned in the 51st state.
it will be a regional conflict and I do fear it will continue to spiral out of control. in a situation like this you need cool heads to prevail and the middle east as a whole doesn't have cool heads.
Anyways I don't think either side is right.
For example, After building the barricade with the gaza strip and having a tight border there Isreal should of released it's political prisoners as a sign of good faith.
At the same time the Palistinians living in Gaza strip shouldn't of crossed the border and kidnapped Isreali forces, and should of worked towards a peaceful resolution with Isreal.
Also I don't see an issue with a barricade at the border with the strip. USA has one that they are expanding With Mexico and are looking into building one with the border with Canada. Many Countries have invested in Border Fences and security measures. Isreal is not alone in this action.
At the same time I find it wierd that a nation would deny the existant of another nation that shares borders with it. Hello, they built a great big security fence you have to be able to see that. The Nation that doesn't exist also has a bunch of military along the border and if you don't notice that you are either blind or stupid. The level of arrogance and intolerance is baffling. it's on the same level as Canada denying the existance of the USA.
in the end I think it'll remain a regional conflict, but the USA might try to step in and control the situation because this is driving up oil prices and that really hurts the USA. they already have troops pre-positioned in the 51st state.
17-Jul-2006 | 01:17 PM
#14
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Posts: 6,394
From: scarborough
can you imagine native indians starting to bomb canadian and US buildings demanding 'their' land back though?
this isn't a problem with people.. it's a problem with groups... people would not act this way if left up to them.
you can hate a regime, you can't meet every member of that regime and personally have hatred for every single one.
it's ignorance.
i just hope canada stays out of it. i don't want one millionth of a cent of my taxes to go into helping either side. let them figure it out.
this isn't a problem with people.. it's a problem with groups... people would not act this way if left up to them.
you can hate a regime, you can't meet every member of that regime and personally have hatred for every single one.
it's ignorance.
i just hope canada stays out of it. i don't want one millionth of a cent of my taxes to go into helping either side. let them figure it out.
17-Jul-2006 | 02:21 PM
#15
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 104
From: Toronto
Originally posted by Bruce Fee
can you imagine native indians starting to bomb canadian and US buildings demanding 'their' land back though?
this isn't a problem with people.. it's a problem with groups... people would not act this way if left up to them.
you can hate a regime, you can't meet every member of that regime and personally have hatred for every single one.
it's ignorance.
i just hope canada stays out of it. i don't want one millionth of a cent of my taxes to go into helping either side. let them figure it out.
can you imagine native indians starting to bomb canadian and US buildings demanding 'their' land back though?
this isn't a problem with people.. it's a problem with groups... people would not act this way if left up to them.
you can hate a regime, you can't meet every member of that regime and personally have hatred for every single one.
it's ignorance.
i just hope canada stays out of it. i don't want one millionth of a cent of my taxes to go into helping either side. let them figure it out.
17-Jul-2006 | 03:52 PM
#18
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From: Photographer's Corner
why do you guys think canada should stay out of it...thats so ignorant of you in my opinion....
there is a farily large middle eastern/muslim community in canada who feel affected...obviously u dont cuz all u care is your beer and your babe....there is life beyond that.
anyway...dont think im getting personal but i strongly disagree that canada should keep its butt out...the community pays their taxes here so the foreign policy should be directed appropriately.
there is a farily large middle eastern/muslim community in canada who feel affected...obviously u dont cuz all u care is your beer and your babe....there is life beyond that.
anyway...dont think im getting personal but i strongly disagree that canada should keep its butt out...the community pays their taxes here so the foreign policy should be directed appropriately.
17-Jul-2006 | 04:08 PM
#19
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,881
everybody should stay out of everything...dont call your big brother to fight your fight, get your *** beat and deal with it...retalliate with a next fight and so on and so forth...but meh...whatever, I have no clue what I'm talkin bout
17-Jul-2006 | 05:16 PM
#20
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,394
From: scarborough
Originally posted by szuberi
why do you guys think canada should stay out of it...thats so ignorant of you in my opinion....
there is a farily large middle eastern/muslim community in canada who feel affected...obviously u dont cuz all u care is your beer and your babe....there is life beyond that.
anyway...dont think im getting personal but i strongly disagree that canada should keep its butt out...the community pays their taxes here so the foreign policy should be directed appropriately.
why do you guys think canada should stay out of it...thats so ignorant of you in my opinion....
there is a farily large middle eastern/muslim community in canada who feel affected...obviously u dont cuz all u care is your beer and your babe....there is life beyond that.
anyway...dont think im getting personal but i strongly disagree that canada should keep its butt out...the community pays their taxes here so the foreign policy should be directed appropriately.
It is my opinion it is extremely ignorant of you to assume the rest of the population, or the jewish population, should help lebanon. As we are a diverse group, instead of taxing the entire population, those who feel the need to help, can choose whatever side they wish and donate to that group. We don't need national intervention, which may cause an attack on the uninvolved population.
It's all not about babes and beer, but I will never donate a single penny to another country as long as there is a starving child in my own community. If I wish to help, it should be up to me, not some idiots in suits who represent my community overall.
if you want to help, that's fine, sell your condo and donate the money, or send a $5 cheque. Do whatever you feel is best for you and your values.
It not should be forced on anyone else.
There is life within your own community to help. a Home is what you consider your home, not where your ancestors whom you don't even have a picture of lived.
