Raptor's Charlie V. traded for TJ Ford (bucks)
04-Jul-2006, 01:08 PM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Moe_Mentum
THat's exactly it though.. we have money to spend, we could have possible signed a Point Guard and kept Charlie. He may turn out to be a rising star and therefore that's why I felt we got the trail end of the deal. Not saying its not in the best interest of the Team because we did need a PG but Villaneuva imo is a better player. Yes you have to give up something to get something, but don't give up a player whose on the rise that has an extremely bright future I am sure there were other options we could have looked into.
THat's exactly it though.. we have money to spend, we could have possible signed a Point Guard and kept Charlie. He may turn out to be a rising star and therefore that's why I felt we got the trail end of the deal. Not saying its not in the best interest of the Team because we did need a PG but Villaneuva imo is a better player. Yes you have to give up something to get something, but don't give up a player whose on the rise that has an extremely bright future I am sure there were other options we could have looked into.
You realize we have too many forwards right? They more than likely will be getting either a veteran forward and making more moves and a combination of other things. Your attachement to Charlie V is what is making you not see the bigger picture. He had one good year, that's great, but you cannot guarantee his second will be better or even the same, and with the log jam at that position, he more than likely will see less time.
We got a point guard that was needed and may even get another, why don't you wait to see what else is being done.
04-Jul-2006, 01:38 PM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Markham, Ontario
Posts: 897
CV is a great talent, but he is still largely talent. Yes, he had a great rookie year, but I'm not sold that he will become a bonafide star. The major knock against him coming out of college was his heart and work ethic. While some of this was alleviated last year through his play, there is still a legitimate concern that he may turn out to the Antoine Walker part 2. There were stretches where he disappeared last year. Nevertheless, I'm still pulling for the guy as he seemed like a good player and a good teammate/person.
Regarding keeping him and signing a PG, yes it was a possibility. However, the huge problem with this is that the team is *several* pieces away from being a good team. They are not one or two players away from being a good team. If you sign a PG for the MLE of $6MM, you only have another $6-7MM left. That leaves you enough money to sign maybe 2 mediocre guys at the most.
With the way it is now, Colangelo can sign 2-3 good players. "Good" is defined as solid veterans with some skill and leadership ability.
Regarding keeping him and signing a PG, yes it was a possibility. However, the huge problem with this is that the team is *several* pieces away from being a good team. They are not one or two players away from being a good team. If you sign a PG for the MLE of $6MM, you only have another $6-7MM left. That leaves you enough money to sign maybe 2 mediocre guys at the most.
With the way it is now, Colangelo can sign 2-3 good players. "Good" is defined as solid veterans with some skill and leadership ability.
04-Jul-2006, 01:52 PM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by SW20 MR2
CV is a great talent, but he is still largely talent. Yes, he had a great rookie year, but I'm not sold that he will become a bonafide star. The major knock against him coming out of college was his heart and work ethic. While some of this was alleviated last year through his play, there is still a legitimate concern that he may turn out to the Antoine Walker part 2. There were stretches where he disappeared last year. Nevertheless, I'm still pulling for the guy as he seemed like a good player and a good teammate/person.
Regarding keeping him and signing a PG, yes it was a possibility. However, the huge problem with this is that the team is *several* pieces away from being a good team. They are not one or two players away from being a good team. If you sign a PG for the MLE of $6MM, you only have another $6-7MM left. That leaves you enough money to sign maybe 2 mediocre guys at the most.
With the way it is now, Colangelo can sign 2-3 good players. "Good" is defined as solid veterans with some skill and leadership ability.
CV is a great talent, but he is still largely talent. Yes, he had a great rookie year, but I'm not sold that he will become a bonafide star. The major knock against him coming out of college was his heart and work ethic. While some of this was alleviated last year through his play, there is still a legitimate concern that he may turn out to the Antoine Walker part 2. There were stretches where he disappeared last year. Nevertheless, I'm still pulling for the guy as he seemed like a good player and a good teammate/person.
Regarding keeping him and signing a PG, yes it was a possibility. However, the huge problem with this is that the team is *several* pieces away from being a good team. They are not one or two players away from being a good team. If you sign a PG for the MLE of $6MM, you only have another $6-7MM left. That leaves you enough money to sign maybe 2 mediocre guys at the most.
With the way it is now, Colangelo can sign 2-3 good players. "Good" is defined as solid veterans with some skill and leadership ability.
Thank you!!! Somebody understands! Guy's its just the beginning, and even if we get a couple of people, don't think we are champs yet, have to give the team time to grow, but they have key players in place to do so. Don't forget, we got a Legitimate decent Centre now that actually can play and take up space. Also, they are looking to improve defensive wise.
05-Jul-2006, 10:03 AM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North York, Toronto-Downtown, London
Posts: 2,316
no matter what colangelo is doing... i gotta say, he's going in the right direction... this guy knows what he's doing... look at suns... once he's gone... now the suns is thinking of trading marion, losing tim thomas, on the verge of losing more players... the suns no longer know what to do... haha...
colangelo will piece us a team where in a year or two, we'll be a threat in the east and going into the playoffs again... he knows what TJ can bring us, this guy probably studies clip of TJ since his college days... that's who colangelo drafted steve nash years years ago... he knows who's gonna be good... no one knew steve nash a cdn boy would be a two-time mvp back to back, but colangelo knew he was gonna be special, so i think TJ is gonna be special... that kid got heart, who could fight back from an injury and still maintain those kind of quickness and guts?
oh yeah... remember rapz was thinking of jay williams? the motorcycle guy haha... well i think TJ is more of a safe choice of signing that jay with 5-6m... and our failure at duhon last year already hold us a year back.... its hard to pick up a PG through free agency... especially not when our team is not a playoff contender yet...
now going to CV... no doubt that kid got some raw talent last year, and he has used it well... but on many occasion he is hitting the wall and showing inconsistency... i have a sense, he is more of a lamar odom or antoine walker type... good, but not that good... he can shoot, but not because he wanna win, just coz he wanna score... plus, i wanna see sam giving that bargnani mins instead of benching him for 3 years, until we realize CV's potential is really rising or declining....... that would be too late.... (look at piston, if they knew ben wallace was gonna leave, they should've develop darko earlier... darko wasn't really a bust... no one can be good without mins... who can make use of 5-10 mins on the floor? even tmac can't score 20 in 10 mins night in night out... especially not when you're a rookie or only a second season player... if piston had used darko and develop him in those 3 years, now he could've be their C... darko shown some good defense and rebounding in magic's last 10-20 or so games... good sign)... we need to use bargnani now, or there's no point of drafting him... and to give him mins, we have to give up CV over bosh/graham/nestrovic... because nestrovic is a true center... graham can play sf/sg (once he can shoot better), and graham is defensive-oriented... bosh is our key... so CV is the odd man out obviously...
i rate this trade A- (could've been A+ if we somehow can key jamal mcgloire over as well)
i rate this offseason so far B: could go higher if we can dump alvin williams contract... and if we can find another SG that can score even more consistent than mopete.......
colangelo will piece us a team where in a year or two, we'll be a threat in the east and going into the playoffs again... he knows what TJ can bring us, this guy probably studies clip of TJ since his college days... that's who colangelo drafted steve nash years years ago... he knows who's gonna be good... no one knew steve nash a cdn boy would be a two-time mvp back to back, but colangelo knew he was gonna be special, so i think TJ is gonna be special... that kid got heart, who could fight back from an injury and still maintain those kind of quickness and guts?
oh yeah... remember rapz was thinking of jay williams? the motorcycle guy haha... well i think TJ is more of a safe choice of signing that jay with 5-6m... and our failure at duhon last year already hold us a year back.... its hard to pick up a PG through free agency... especially not when our team is not a playoff contender yet...
now going to CV... no doubt that kid got some raw talent last year, and he has used it well... but on many occasion he is hitting the wall and showing inconsistency... i have a sense, he is more of a lamar odom or antoine walker type... good, but not that good... he can shoot, but not because he wanna win, just coz he wanna score... plus, i wanna see sam giving that bargnani mins instead of benching him for 3 years, until we realize CV's potential is really rising or declining....... that would be too late.... (look at piston, if they knew ben wallace was gonna leave, they should've develop darko earlier... darko wasn't really a bust... no one can be good without mins... who can make use of 5-10 mins on the floor? even tmac can't score 20 in 10 mins night in night out... especially not when you're a rookie or only a second season player... if piston had used darko and develop him in those 3 years, now he could've be their C... darko shown some good defense and rebounding in magic's last 10-20 or so games... good sign)... we need to use bargnani now, or there's no point of drafting him... and to give him mins, we have to give up CV over bosh/graham/nestrovic... because nestrovic is a true center... graham can play sf/sg (once he can shoot better), and graham is defensive-oriented... bosh is our key... so CV is the odd man out obviously...
i rate this trade A- (could've been A+ if we somehow can key jamal mcgloire over as well)
i rate this offseason so far B: could go higher if we can dump alvin williams contract... and if we can find another SG that can score even more consistent than mopete.......
05-Jul-2006, 10:07 AM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North York, Toronto-Downtown, London
Posts: 2,316
Originally posted by Moe_Mentum
THat's exactly it though.. we have money to spend, we could have possible signed a Point Guard and kept Charlie. He may turn out to be a rising star and therefore that's why I felt we got the trail end of the deal. Not saying its not in the best interest of the Team because we did need a PG but Villaneuva imo is a better player. Yes you have to give up something to get something, but don't give up a player whose on the rise that has an extremely bright future I am sure there were other options we could have looked into.
THat's exactly it though.. we have money to spend, we could have possible signed a Point Guard and kept Charlie. He may turn out to be a rising star and therefore that's why I felt we got the trail end of the deal. Not saying its not in the best interest of the Team because we did need a PG but Villaneuva imo is a better player. Yes you have to give up something to get something, but don't give up a player whose on the rise that has an extremely bright future I am sure there were other options we could have looked into.
TJ ALL DA WAY!
05-Jul-2006, 10:51 AM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scarborough
Posts: 1,061
i agree with most of what you guys are saying...it is a good trade...it will be better for the team in the long run
C - Bargnani
PF - Bosh
SF - MoPete
SG - ??
PG - Ford
i think we need a good consistent shooting SG...sumone that can shoot at a good percentage and can knock down open shots
since team's key players are tj and cb4...and the game plan is to have fast breaks and go low post with bosh....we need that shooter outside after tj penetrate the defense
so with that all said....what are some candidates that's ideal for the position....
kyle korver
eddie house
raja bell
mike miller
bell and miller are highly unlikely to join the team because their respective team want to lock them up...but korver or house are quite suitable for it
C - Bargnani
PF - Bosh
SF - MoPete
SG - ??
PG - Ford
i think we need a good consistent shooting SG...sumone that can shoot at a good percentage and can knock down open shots
since team's key players are tj and cb4...and the game plan is to have fast breaks and go low post with bosh....we need that shooter outside after tj penetrate the defense
so with that all said....what are some candidates that's ideal for the position....
kyle korver
eddie house
raja bell
mike miller
bell and miller are highly unlikely to join the team because their respective team want to lock them up...but korver or house are quite suitable for it
05-Jul-2006, 12:15 PM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: North York
Posts: 1,148
Originally posted by 95civic_hb
C - Bargnani
PF - Bosh
SF - MoPete
SG - ??
PG - Ford
C - Bargnani
PF - Bosh
SF - MoPete
SG - ??
PG - Ford
I'm thinking more something like:
C- Nestrovic
PF- Bosh
SF- Bargnani
SG- Peterson
PG- Ford
But I could be wrong.
05-Jul-2006, 12:17 PM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Scarbaria
Posts: 11,834
Originally posted by mugenpowered
Bargnani at centre? He is 7 feet but I don't think he will be the centre considering that they made a move for Rasho.
I'm thinking more something like:
C- Nestrovic
PF- Bosh
SF- Bargnani
SG- Peterson
PG- Ford
But I could be wrong.
Bargnani at centre? He is 7 feet but I don't think he will be the centre considering that they made a move for Rasho.
I'm thinking more something like:
C- Nestrovic
PF- Bosh
SF- Bargnani
SG- Peterson
PG- Ford
But I could be wrong.
05-Jul-2006, 03:22 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by 95civic_hb
if that's the case....who we got on the bench to fill the forward positions....pape sow?
if that's the case....who we got on the bench to fill the forward positions....pape sow?
No. FORWARDS
- Andrea Bargnani 6-10/225 10/26/85 Italian League 0-R Tor '06 (1/1)
4 Chris Bosh 6-10/210 3/24/84 Georgia Tech 3 Tor '03 (1/4)
14 Joey Graham 6-7/225 6/11/82 Oklahoma State 1 Tor '05 (1/16)
- Kris Humphries 6-9/235 2/6/85 Minnesota 2 Uth '04 (1/14)
24 Morris Peterson 6-7/215 8/26/77 Michigan State 6 Tor '00 (1/21)
9 Pape Sow 6-10/250 11/22/81 Cal State Fullerton 2 Mia '04 (2/47)
- P.J. Tucker 6-5/225 5/5/85 Texas 0-R Tor '06 (2/35)
HT/WT Birthday From Exp. Drafted
Again, they still have the free agency this summer and trades that can be had.
13 million in cap.
Charlie V is gone, get over it people.
05-Jul-2006, 04:13 PM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North East
Posts: 2,578
I'll get over the Trade once I see Charlie V bust 2 seasons haha. You keep saying how its so good for the team and all cause its going in the right direction. But since were like 2-3 years away from being competitive whats the rush? Just doesn't seem to make sense to trade such a good prospect player in Charlie. Anyway maybe we'll come back to this thread in 1.5 and see who was right.
Which reminds me.. I should dig up that old NHL Sabres thread!
Which reminds me.. I should dig up that old NHL Sabres thread!
