Salary Negotiation
19-Nov-2008, 08:29 PM
#41
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Burlington
Posts: 235
I suggest you ignore all of the pussies in this thread and negotiate. I would imagine most, if not all, of the guys telling you to take the job are young guys, with little experience in the corporate world. (I'm not hating, I'm just saying)
I have been a hiring manager within a few companies for well over a decade and based on your story I can almost guarentee you a few things. If they have extended you an offer on paper:
- They are lowballing you and fully expect you to negotiate, at least a few grand.
- They do not have any "backup" candidates in the event you negotiate. They will not tell you to take a hike for negotiating. They are not offering the job to anyone else.
- The hiring manager HAS more budget for this role.
- They want you for the job, they will pay you more than initially offered.
I will also let you know that it is WAY easier to get more money when you are being hired than when you have been in an job for a while. Performance reviews are only used to move people OUT of an organization, not up in one. Beleive it. Companies use their HR deptartments to string you along and only offer more money in the even you decide to leave.
For those that think I am being cynical...I am not. I am being honest, both as someone that has been hired many many times as well as someone that has hired many many people.
Lastly, I hired on guy who was awesome. I needed him on my team. I offered him $37k and he faxed back an acceptance within 30 minutes. I hired him but actually lost respect for him.
You are in control of your career...not a company you may chose to work for.
I have been a hiring manager within a few companies for well over a decade and based on your story I can almost guarentee you a few things. If they have extended you an offer on paper:
- They are lowballing you and fully expect you to negotiate, at least a few grand.
- They do not have any "backup" candidates in the event you negotiate. They will not tell you to take a hike for negotiating. They are not offering the job to anyone else.
- The hiring manager HAS more budget for this role.
- They want you for the job, they will pay you more than initially offered.
I will also let you know that it is WAY easier to get more money when you are being hired than when you have been in an job for a while. Performance reviews are only used to move people OUT of an organization, not up in one. Beleive it. Companies use their HR deptartments to string you along and only offer more money in the even you decide to leave.
For those that think I am being cynical...I am not. I am being honest, both as someone that has been hired many many times as well as someone that has hired many many people.
Lastly, I hired on guy who was awesome. I needed him on my team. I offered him $37k and he faxed back an acceptance within 30 minutes. I hired him but actually lost respect for him.
You are in control of your career...not a company you may chose to work for.
20-Nov-2008, 08:46 AM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 658
Holy cow man...have they got you whipped.
Please do not view my comments as disrespectful, but beleive me when I tell you everything I wrote above is 100% true. I have dozens and dozens of friends who are Manager, Director and VP-level professionals inside Canadas largest companies...not just one company does this...they all do.
HR departments use fear, the kind of fear you obviously have, to keep employees planted.
In 20 years, you will look back on your career and you will realize that the only people you have seen succeed in the corporate world are in fact the people that could care less.
When you have no fear (read: confidence) about finding a job, you will have them offered to you conssistently...this I promise.
Companies are having a difficult time finding good people. I'm not talking qualified people, I'm talking good people. If they make you an offer, they want you and will fight for you.
Please do not view my comments as disrespectful, but beleive me when I tell you everything I wrote above is 100% true. I have dozens and dozens of friends who are Manager, Director and VP-level professionals inside Canadas largest companies...not just one company does this...they all do.
HR departments use fear, the kind of fear you obviously have, to keep employees planted.
In 20 years, you will look back on your career and you will realize that the only people you have seen succeed in the corporate world are in fact the people that could care less.
When you have no fear (read: confidence) about finding a job, you will have them offered to you conssistently...this I promise.
Companies are having a difficult time finding good people. I'm not talking qualified people, I'm talking good people. If they make you an offer, they want you and will fight for you.
I'm not taking your comments as disrespectful, don't worry, but a lot has changed over the past 10 years.
Personally speaking, I'd only negotiate now since I have a proven background and many years of experience. When I first started out I took what I could get being a recent graduate, and was lucky to be offered a job in the first place.
20-Nov-2008, 09:45 AM
#45
Inactive
Join Date: May 2005
Location: █♣█ Durham
Posts: 11,514
i am in IT as well, the way market is going, should take what you get and once you have some experience then you will have ***** to negotiate because you will have a proven record.
there are bizillion people with IT education without a job right now and i am sure you are not THE only one on their list.
there are bizillion people with IT education without a job right now and i am sure you are not THE only one on their list.
20-Nov-2008, 09:53 AM
#46
Inactive
Join Date: May 2005
Location: █♣█ Durham
Posts: 11,514
experience experience experience is a very big thing in IT. there are tones of new grads with all sorts of deg and cert, but at the end a person with no cert but has 10+ years of IT experience will get the job.
where I work i have 4 people with seniority over me on my team and non of them have any cert, but they have 5+ years of experience. I am the youngest one on the team just graduated last year and i have many industry recognized certs, but yet i get paid the least i bet.
negotiate but not some ridicules amount, if you will be driving far, ask them if they are will to pay for the gas/parking etc, there are some sites out there which tells you your current market value, not that those site are accurate but gives you some idea. then if you see they are offering you significantly less then ask them that you were expecting around 5-8k more etc. dont throw some rediculas number at them and be realistic with your offers.
where I work i have 4 people with seniority over me on my team and non of them have any cert, but they have 5+ years of experience. I am the youngest one on the team just graduated last year and i have many industry recognized certs, but yet i get paid the least i bet.
negotiate but not some ridicules amount, if you will be driving far, ask them if they are will to pay for the gas/parking etc, there are some sites out there which tells you your current market value, not that those site are accurate but gives you some idea. then if you see they are offering you significantly less then ask them that you were expecting around 5-8k more etc. dont throw some rediculas number at them and be realistic with your offers.
20-Nov-2008, 04:21 PM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 442
im sure dude isnt getting a starting positing in the server room
20-Nov-2008, 04:45 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: GTA
Posts: 2,305
i started as a co-op student.
i had to run apps to get admin passwords at my first job!
----
you can't ask about negotiating about a job and expect a good answer from people who don't know the situation.
if a lot of people applied and there were a lot of good candidates, then you shut up, take the job, prove your worth and go from there.
if they need you specifically and you know the resume and interview were a formality then of course you will negotiate.
if you're going to negotiate $3000/year and risk getting the job when you have nothing you're an absolute idiot.
think long term.
i had to run apps to get admin passwords at my first job!
----
you can't ask about negotiating about a job and expect a good answer from people who don't know the situation.
if a lot of people applied and there were a lot of good candidates, then you shut up, take the job, prove your worth and go from there.
if they need you specifically and you know the resume and interview were a formality then of course you will negotiate.
if you're going to negotiate $3000/year and risk getting the job when you have nothing you're an absolute idiot.
think long term.
20-Nov-2008, 04:50 PM
#51
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12
Trust me man, if you get the $47,000 its not much different than $50,000. The amount your taxed would probably make a $40 difference on your pay cheque. i forget the range of tax brackets too. I believe under $36,000 is 31% of your salary, then over $36,000 - $5x,xxx is $32%, and so on.
Also since there is a global recession your lucky to even get an offer right now.
Also since there is a global recession your lucky to even get an offer right now.
20-Nov-2008, 08:33 PM
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hamilton Supercity
Posts: 193
I think that, considering the current economy, you may want to just take the offer. My bro got let go from his last company after asking about his post-probation raise. But that all depens on your employer. I would play it safe. 43-47 is good maoney to start.
20-Nov-2008, 09:34 PM
#55
Make a wise decision so you won't regret it later.
If there is lots of competition for the position and the other candidates are very close to you, I wouldn't negotiate because they might be willing to save that extra money that you would want and give it to another person. The way with the economy is going, I would say take it since there is many cuts lately in many companies! (I'm glad I'm not one of them! They always need teachers
)
I would ask for a performance review and show them what you can do and companies are willing to pay for performance. I would say what you are offered is good and normal for a graduate student who just came out of university..
So take it, work your *** off, ask for a review and you'll get the raise..
I would say negotiate if you think you have blown them out of the water with your interview/knowledge that will make them say, "Our company NEEDS him".. unless you are someone with a specialist in IT I would say negotiate because it makes you distinct and unique from everyone else. But if you have the same qualifications as everyone else.. don't negotiate..
If there is lots of competition for the position and the other candidates are very close to you, I wouldn't negotiate because they might be willing to save that extra money that you would want and give it to another person. The way with the economy is going, I would say take it since there is many cuts lately in many companies! (I'm glad I'm not one of them! They always need teachers
) I would ask for a performance review and show them what you can do and companies are willing to pay for performance. I would say what you are offered is good and normal for a graduate student who just came out of university..
So take it, work your *** off, ask for a review and you'll get the raise..
I would say negotiate if you think you have blown them out of the water with your interview/knowledge that will make them say, "Our company NEEDS him".. unless you are someone with a specialist in IT I would say negotiate because it makes you distinct and unique from everyone else. But if you have the same qualifications as everyone else.. don't negotiate..
20-Nov-2008, 09:51 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fortress of Superheroes
Posts: 7,275
Make a wise decision so you won't regret it later.
If there is lots of competition for the position and the other candidates are very close to you, I wouldn't negotiate because they might be willing to save that extra money that you would want and give it to another person. The way with the economy is going, I would say take it since there is many cuts lately in many companies! (I'm glad I'm not one of them! They always need teachers)
I would ask for a performance review and show them what you can do and companies are willing to pay for performance. I would say what you are offered is good and normal for a graduate student who just came out of university..
So take it, work your *** off, ask for a review and you'll get the raise..
I would say negotiate if you think you have blown them out of the water with your interview/knowledge that will make them say, "Our company NEEDS him".. unless you are someone with a specialist in IT I would say negotiate because it makes you distinct and unique from everyone else. But if you have the same qualifications as everyone else.. don't negotiate..
If there is lots of competition for the position and the other candidates are very close to you, I wouldn't negotiate because they might be willing to save that extra money that you would want and give it to another person. The way with the economy is going, I would say take it since there is many cuts lately in many companies! (I'm glad I'm not one of them! They always need teachers
) I would ask for a performance review and show them what you can do and companies are willing to pay for performance. I would say what you are offered is good and normal for a graduate student who just came out of university..
So take it, work your *** off, ask for a review and you'll get the raise..
I would say negotiate if you think you have blown them out of the water with your interview/knowledge that will make them say, "Our company NEEDS him".. unless you are someone with a specialist in IT I would say negotiate because it makes you distinct and unique from everyone else. But if you have the same qualifications as everyone else.. don't negotiate..
Last edited by Polkaroo Killa; 21-Nov-2008 at 02:49 PM.
