Tories target street racers
26-May-2006, 08:32 AM
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Tories target street racers
Proposed Criminal Code offence could put worst offenders behind bars
May 26, 2006. 05:06 AM
BRUCE CAMPION-SMITH
OTTAWA BUREAU KEVIN MCGRAN AND JESSICA LEEDER IN TORONTO
Street racers who put innocent lives at risk should lose their cars, lose their licence for life and spend time in jail, say police and others battling a deadly street racing culture that has claimed 31 lives in Greater Toronto since 1999.
Police and safety advocates were quick to chime in after Prime Minister Stephen Harper vowed yesterday to create a new Criminal Code offence for street racing and stiffer sentences aimed at curbing wild and extreme driving.
"Our bill will impose driving prohibitions on those convicted of street racing," said Harper, who made the announcement at the RCMP headquarters building in Vancouver. "There will be minimum penalties. Those penalties will involve some kind of prohibition. As they escalate, they will also likely involve prison terms."
In his speech, Harper cited the January death of Toronto cabbie Tahir Khan, a Pakistani immigrant who was killed in an alleged street racing incident on Mount Pleasant Rd., as the kind of tragedy he hopes the law will prevent, although he was unable to provide details on penalties.
"Street racing is a serious problem that is claiming new victims each year," Harper said.
Those on the front lines praised any tougher laws, as long as they have teeth and reduce street racing.
In the GTA alone, at least 31 people have been killed in incidents since 1999, said York Region police Sgt. David Mitchell, co-founder of a southern Ontario anti-street racing task force called Project ERASE (Eliminate Racing Activity on Streets Everywhere). Mitchell said sentences for racers who kill people are "minuscule" and "nowhere near what seems appropriate."
He cited a two-year jail sentence given to racer Petro Lam, who was convicted of criminal negligence causing death in the 2000 death of Andrea Pike, a Newmarket mother killed when Lam's Honda went out of control.
"Somebody paid the ultimate price for somebody else's stupidity. That didn't sit well with me," Mitchell said. "If you're convicted of street racing, you ought to lose your licence for life. It's a privilege to drive."
OPP. Sgt. Cam Woolley said making street racing a criminal offence could attach a stigma to the culture that would act as a deterrent.
"Most people don't think criminal offences are cool. We're trying to make street racing as socially unacceptable as drinking and driving," he said. "The tragedies from street racing are every bit as real as violent crime. In fact, more people are injured or killed in automobile crashes that all crimes combined.
"We think this is excellent news. It's making it not just a fun game anymore."
But the devil is in the details, say advocates. Catching speeders is one thing, but police have found that proving they were racing is much more difficult. They hope this new law will lessen the burden of proof, says Brian Patterson, president of the Ontario Safety League.
"Every time they tried to do this in the past, they get themselves caught up in what constitutes a race," said Patterson. "Did money change hands? Do you have to have onlookers, do you have to have wagers, do you have to drop a flag? Was there an agreement between parties? Is winking at each other at a stop light and racing like hell to the next set of lights, does that constitute a race?"
"Excessive speed should be sufficient to warrant the sanctions identified."
Some say street racing culture has become so endemic, no law will be tough enough to curb it.
"Now you have whole generations that seem to think it's okay," said Mitchell. He said his detachment seized the cars of two racers — both modified Honda Civics — in 2004. In both cases, he said, parents made excuses for their kids' cars and behaviour.
Asked whether parents should take more responsibility for the actions of their children when they get behind the wheel, Harper said he didn't want to become the judge "of every parent in the country. When their kids are using vehicles dangerously or illegally, I suspect most parents just aren't aware that is taking place."
"Street racers are going to rebel against the law. The generation today has got very little respect," said John French, a reformed street and drag racer who spent much of his youth racing muscle cars — on a track and the open road — and betting thousands. French is not his real last name.
"Kids today, they're not professional. They're excited their car's got all this power, and they're showboating. It's giving them extreme amounts of horsepower they're not capable of handling."
When French raced, he said, the culture was different. "It wasn't a show-off thing. It was basically about your ability to put a motor together with your own hands. It was to acknowledge your ability with a car," he said, adding: "There was more respect for the public."
French said back then, drivers' worst fears were losing their cars and their licences. "You respected the automobiles because of the money you put into them. You'd never put the vehicle in an area where there could have been an accident.
"We had track experience before we went to the street. We didn't just learn our racing techniques on the street. Experience is a very big part of this whole deal," French said.
Today, street racers have no qualms about encountering traffic. In Vancouver in January, three men were killed when their BMW sedan hit a lamppost.
Ontario already uses a little known "ancient legal tool" or forfeiture law to seize vehicles and is prepared to step up those efforts. "We have to do more than just slam the brakes on these street racers, we've to take away their hot wheels for good so that these cars don't come back to the streets with another bad guy behind the wheel," said Attorney General Michael Bryant.
"If they know we will take their cars away — and we will certainly do everything in our power to do that — then it is our hope that people walk away from this deadly activity," he said.
Bryant said people should forget any romantic notion they might have about street racing.
"These cars are souped up today to Indy-car performance using super charger blowers and nitrous oxide and they are just way too dangerous for our streets," said Bryant. "It is a problem for urban street, suburban streets and rural roads as well."
Bryant said under the civil forfeiture law the Crown only has to prove that a car is being used for illegal purposes in order to seize and destroy it.
"The burden of proof is different than that for a criminal offence because we are not attempting necessarily to target a crime, we are merely attempting to seize an instrument of unlawful activity," he said. "These souped-up cars by nature are unlawful."
May 26, 2006. 05:06 AM
BRUCE CAMPION-SMITH
OTTAWA BUREAU KEVIN MCGRAN AND JESSICA LEEDER IN TORONTO
Street racers who put innocent lives at risk should lose their cars, lose their licence for life and spend time in jail, say police and others battling a deadly street racing culture that has claimed 31 lives in Greater Toronto since 1999.
Police and safety advocates were quick to chime in after Prime Minister Stephen Harper vowed yesterday to create a new Criminal Code offence for street racing and stiffer sentences aimed at curbing wild and extreme driving.
"Our bill will impose driving prohibitions on those convicted of street racing," said Harper, who made the announcement at the RCMP headquarters building in Vancouver. "There will be minimum penalties. Those penalties will involve some kind of prohibition. As they escalate, they will also likely involve prison terms."
In his speech, Harper cited the January death of Toronto cabbie Tahir Khan, a Pakistani immigrant who was killed in an alleged street racing incident on Mount Pleasant Rd., as the kind of tragedy he hopes the law will prevent, although he was unable to provide details on penalties.
"Street racing is a serious problem that is claiming new victims each year," Harper said.
Those on the front lines praised any tougher laws, as long as they have teeth and reduce street racing.
In the GTA alone, at least 31 people have been killed in incidents since 1999, said York Region police Sgt. David Mitchell, co-founder of a southern Ontario anti-street racing task force called Project ERASE (Eliminate Racing Activity on Streets Everywhere). Mitchell said sentences for racers who kill people are "minuscule" and "nowhere near what seems appropriate."
He cited a two-year jail sentence given to racer Petro Lam, who was convicted of criminal negligence causing death in the 2000 death of Andrea Pike, a Newmarket mother killed when Lam's Honda went out of control.
"Somebody paid the ultimate price for somebody else's stupidity. That didn't sit well with me," Mitchell said. "If you're convicted of street racing, you ought to lose your licence for life. It's a privilege to drive."
OPP. Sgt. Cam Woolley said making street racing a criminal offence could attach a stigma to the culture that would act as a deterrent.
"Most people don't think criminal offences are cool. We're trying to make street racing as socially unacceptable as drinking and driving," he said. "The tragedies from street racing are every bit as real as violent crime. In fact, more people are injured or killed in automobile crashes that all crimes combined.
"We think this is excellent news. It's making it not just a fun game anymore."
But the devil is in the details, say advocates. Catching speeders is one thing, but police have found that proving they were racing is much more difficult. They hope this new law will lessen the burden of proof, says Brian Patterson, president of the Ontario Safety League.
"Every time they tried to do this in the past, they get themselves caught up in what constitutes a race," said Patterson. "Did money change hands? Do you have to have onlookers, do you have to have wagers, do you have to drop a flag? Was there an agreement between parties? Is winking at each other at a stop light and racing like hell to the next set of lights, does that constitute a race?"
"Excessive speed should be sufficient to warrant the sanctions identified."
Some say street racing culture has become so endemic, no law will be tough enough to curb it.
"Now you have whole generations that seem to think it's okay," said Mitchell. He said his detachment seized the cars of two racers — both modified Honda Civics — in 2004. In both cases, he said, parents made excuses for their kids' cars and behaviour.
Asked whether parents should take more responsibility for the actions of their children when they get behind the wheel, Harper said he didn't want to become the judge "of every parent in the country. When their kids are using vehicles dangerously or illegally, I suspect most parents just aren't aware that is taking place."
"Street racers are going to rebel against the law. The generation today has got very little respect," said John French, a reformed street and drag racer who spent much of his youth racing muscle cars — on a track and the open road — and betting thousands. French is not his real last name.
"Kids today, they're not professional. They're excited their car's got all this power, and they're showboating. It's giving them extreme amounts of horsepower they're not capable of handling."
When French raced, he said, the culture was different. "It wasn't a show-off thing. It was basically about your ability to put a motor together with your own hands. It was to acknowledge your ability with a car," he said, adding: "There was more respect for the public."
French said back then, drivers' worst fears were losing their cars and their licences. "You respected the automobiles because of the money you put into them. You'd never put the vehicle in an area where there could have been an accident.
"We had track experience before we went to the street. We didn't just learn our racing techniques on the street. Experience is a very big part of this whole deal," French said.
Today, street racers have no qualms about encountering traffic. In Vancouver in January, three men were killed when their BMW sedan hit a lamppost.
Ontario already uses a little known "ancient legal tool" or forfeiture law to seize vehicles and is prepared to step up those efforts. "We have to do more than just slam the brakes on these street racers, we've to take away their hot wheels for good so that these cars don't come back to the streets with another bad guy behind the wheel," said Attorney General Michael Bryant.
"If they know we will take their cars away — and we will certainly do everything in our power to do that — then it is our hope that people walk away from this deadly activity," he said.
Bryant said people should forget any romantic notion they might have about street racing.
"These cars are souped up today to Indy-car performance using super charger blowers and nitrous oxide and they are just way too dangerous for our streets," said Bryant. "It is a problem for urban street, suburban streets and rural roads as well."
Bryant said under the civil forfeiture law the Crown only has to prove that a car is being used for illegal purposes in order to seize and destroy it.
"The burden of proof is different than that for a criminal offence because we are not attempting necessarily to target a crime, we are merely attempting to seize an instrument of unlawful activity," he said. "These souped-up cars by nature are unlawful."
26-May-2006, 08:42 AM
#2
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good for em ... damn racers 
26-May-2006, 08:46 AM
#3
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i'd like to see that.....like john french said.....there was more respect back in the day...
26-May-2006, 09:02 AM
#4
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I agree with the punishment, but what about all the deaths from regular car accidents?
31 people in 7 years? Big deal. How many have died in total from auto accidents in general? 100?
Maybe they should concentrate on driver education and traffic enforcement instead of blaming street racing on all the deaths.
31 people in 7 years? Big deal. How many have died in total from auto accidents in general? 100?
Maybe they should concentrate on driver education and traffic enforcement instead of blaming street racing on all the deaths.
26-May-2006, 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by DumbasSi
I agree with the punishment, but what about all the deaths from regular car accidents?
31 people in 7 years? Big deal. How many have died in total from auto accidents in general? 100?
Maybe they should concentrate on driver education and traffic enforcement instead of blaming street racing on all the deaths.
I agree with the punishment, but what about all the deaths from regular car accidents?
31 people in 7 years? Big deal. How many have died in total from auto accidents in general? 100?
Maybe they should concentrate on driver education and traffic enforcement instead of blaming street racing on all the deaths.
26-May-2006, 09:20 AM
#6
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Maybe proper training and education will smarten them up and teach them some responsibility. Killing someone vs. winning some dumb race? They might think twice.
I'm totally against street racing. It just seems like another quick-fix solution from the Govt when there are much bigger problems out there besides street racing. Gangs, guns, drugs, etc.
I'm totally against street racing. It just seems like another quick-fix solution from the Govt when there are much bigger problems out there besides street racing. Gangs, guns, drugs, etc.
26-May-2006, 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by DumbasSi
Maybe proper training and education will smarten them up and teach them some responsibility. Killing someone vs. winning some dumb race? They might think twice.
I'm totally against street racing. It just seems like another quick-fix solution from the Govt when there are much bigger problems out there besides street racing. Gangs, guns, drugs, etc.
Maybe proper training and education will smarten them up and teach them some responsibility. Killing someone vs. winning some dumb race? They might think twice.
I'm totally against street racing. It just seems like another quick-fix solution from the Govt when there are much bigger problems out there besides street racing. Gangs, guns, drugs, etc.
no matter how much education u give drivers .. there will always be ****ty ones u cant fight it ...
26-May-2006, 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by JoonyaSI
no matter how much education u give drivers .. there will always be ****ty ones u cant fight it ...
no matter how much education u give drivers .. there will always be ****ty ones u cant fight it ...
26-May-2006, 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by viper_2_4
thats true....but I think enforcing more education (mandatory driving tests on a regular basis is a possible example) will reduce the number of bad drivers
thats true....but I think enforcing more education (mandatory driving tests on a regular basis is a possible example) will reduce the number of bad drivers
i dont think so .. it will just increase the amount of illegal drivers on the road .. imagine .. if the toreis said everyone who hasnt had a test in like 5-10 years HAS TO go bacck and take a MANDITORY re-test ... i would say only 50-60% of the ppl currently on the road will actually do it .. the other 40-50% will just keep driving till they get caught riding dirty .... again .. cant fight it ..
26-May-2006, 09:40 AM
#10
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"These souped-up cars by nature are unlawful."
it's not just street racing they are after...
they want your civics.
it's not just street racing they are after...
they want your civics.
26-May-2006, 09:41 AM
#11
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What kills me about this is how much they blame the cars for this ...
that's BS, any car can be dangerous hell if that guy crashed his civic that probalby had 96 horsepower, then what are they gonna do? how about you look at all the owners of cars that have 300+ hp and talk to them about it too cuz apparenlty they're too fast... the problem isn't fast cars, it's stupid racers...
people have been modifying cars for decades, they're definatley not unlawful, what a guy... stupid politicians...
Ontario already uses a little known "ancient legal tool" or forfeiture law to seize vehicles and is prepared to step up those efforts. "We have to do more than just slam the brakes on these street racers, we've to take away their hot wheels for good so that these cars don't come back to the streets with another bad guy behind the wheel," said Attorney General Michael Bryant.
"If they know we will take their cars away — and we will certainly do everything in our power to do that — then it is our hope that people walk away from this deadly activity," he said.
Bryant said people should forget any romantic notion they might have about street racing.
"These cars are souped up today to Indy-car performance using super charger blowers and nitrous oxide and they are just way too dangerous for our streets," said Bryant. "It is a problem for urban street, suburban streets and rural roads as well."
Bryant said under the civil forfeiture law the Crown only has to prove that a car is being used for illegal purposes in order to seize and destroy it.
"The burden of proof is different than that for a criminal offence because we are not attempting necessarily to target a crime, we are merely attempting to seize an instrument of unlawful activity," he said. "These souped-up cars by nature are unlawful."
"If they know we will take their cars away — and we will certainly do everything in our power to do that — then it is our hope that people walk away from this deadly activity," he said.
Bryant said people should forget any romantic notion they might have about street racing.
"These cars are souped up today to Indy-car performance using super charger blowers and nitrous oxide and they are just way too dangerous for our streets," said Bryant. "It is a problem for urban street, suburban streets and rural roads as well."
Bryant said under the civil forfeiture law the Crown only has to prove that a car is being used for illegal purposes in order to seize and destroy it.
"The burden of proof is different than that for a criminal offence because we are not attempting necessarily to target a crime, we are merely attempting to seize an instrument of unlawful activity," he said. "These souped-up cars by nature are unlawful."
people have been modifying cars for decades, they're definatley not unlawful, what a guy... stupid politicians...
26-May-2006, 09:41 AM
#12
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Originally posted by Bruce Fee
"These souped-up cars by nature are unlawful."
it's not just street racing they are after...
they want your civics.
"These souped-up cars by nature are unlawful."
it's not just street racing they are after...
they want your civics.
ALL OUR CIVICS ARE BELONG TO THEM !
Nooooooooooooooooooo
26-May-2006, 10:30 AM
#13
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fcky the government, this is just a way for them to show face and look like they're doing something. a new topic comes up so they propose something and meanwhile all the other serious issues get left behind. If the're so worried about racing then open a Fcking race track already and give us friday night specials. the gov talks to much and rarely do they back up what they say. If something comes up next week about people wearing yellow shoes and how these yellow shoes are vandalizing everything then they'll address the issue and state anyone wearing yellow shoes will be fined or sentence to community service. it's all part of public relations....our gov is fraudulent , corrupt, and a sham.
I like racing!!! I kept it off the streets now for the past 5 years but i think all of us are giulty of peppering the pedal once in a while whether you want to admit it or not. taking someone else life cause you lost control or something isn't right so for those that choose to race on our streets, should pay a price. Strap them in a car and have someone from the greiving side ram them any which way they want with a truck. problem solved. i'm a big believer of an eye for an eye! now the cops hassling you cause your car is down up and they hear you go by and make bull**** up, (which has happened to me many times in my old rides), **** that shyt too! They should be take to the field of your choice and beaten silly. I personal think if a cop is busting your nuts for no reason, give him a fresh one. Cops wonder why they are often targetted and discriminated against and really they aren't targetted enough. There's lots of great cops out there but there's also a lot of juice buckets out there for cops as well. They are suppossed to be viewed as a step above us and if they all can't hold the same moral and character, then **** em.
I like racing!!! I kept it off the streets now for the past 5 years but i think all of us are giulty of peppering the pedal once in a while whether you want to admit it or not. taking someone else life cause you lost control or something isn't right so for those that choose to race on our streets, should pay a price. Strap them in a car and have someone from the greiving side ram them any which way they want with a truck. problem solved. i'm a big believer of an eye for an eye! now the cops hassling you cause your car is down up and they hear you go by and make bull**** up, (which has happened to me many times in my old rides), **** that shyt too! They should be take to the field of your choice and beaten silly. I personal think if a cop is busting your nuts for no reason, give him a fresh one. Cops wonder why they are often targetted and discriminated against and really they aren't targetted enough. There's lots of great cops out there but there's also a lot of juice buckets out there for cops as well. They are suppossed to be viewed as a step above us and if they all can't hold the same moral and character, then **** em.
26-May-2006, 10:36 AM
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This is all very true now that i step back and look at it .. have u guys noticed that the Guv is trying to make a stand on all these issues ...
1. we wake up one morning to see police Raiding the whole of rexdale. and in one of the clips for SOME reason .. we see something that has never been seen before .. not any cop, we see the police cheif going into a trunk of a squad car. and loading his gun ... WTF why does the public need to see our police cheif let alone any cop at that loading and cocking his guy before a raid .. thats just a HUGE Publicity stunt if u ask me ..
2. they are now trying to make a stand on street racing .. so what are they gonna do .. put a face and make it look like they are serious about this .. put it all over the news .. flood the public for about 4-5 days .. then all of a sudden .. it dissapears again ...
What would give the police the right to seize my car .. something as little as rims ? or intake ? how would they determine my car would be illegal .. i mean alot of stock cars these days have more HP than some modded cars on the road .. so are they gonna goto the dealership and impound all the high HP cars on the Lots ?
Right now its all about Harper getting publicity .. makin it look like hes doing madd work in parliment ... hah ... cant fool me !
1. we wake up one morning to see police Raiding the whole of rexdale. and in one of the clips for SOME reason .. we see something that has never been seen before .. not any cop, we see the police cheif going into a trunk of a squad car. and loading his gun ... WTF why does the public need to see our police cheif let alone any cop at that loading and cocking his guy before a raid .. thats just a HUGE Publicity stunt if u ask me ..
2. they are now trying to make a stand on street racing .. so what are they gonna do .. put a face and make it look like they are serious about this .. put it all over the news .. flood the public for about 4-5 days .. then all of a sudden .. it dissapears again ...
What would give the police the right to seize my car .. something as little as rims ? or intake ? how would they determine my car would be illegal .. i mean alot of stock cars these days have more HP than some modded cars on the road .. so are they gonna goto the dealership and impound all the high HP cars on the Lots ?
Right now its all about Harper getting publicity .. makin it look like hes doing madd work in parliment ... hah ... cant fool me !
26-May-2006, 10:41 AM
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this thread has the highest "words per post" evar!!!!!!
26-May-2006, 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Cynikal.Mindset
this thread has the highest "words per post" evar!!!!!!
this thread has the highest "words per post" evar!!!!!!
BACK TO TOPIC
26-May-2006, 10:46 AM
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i support the hell's angels for police officers! at least they are reasonable.
26-May-2006, 10:52 AM
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how many cops pull over chargers with exhausts vs. civics with exhausts???
i hate police that are bias
i hate police that are bias
26-May-2006, 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by vtec_boy
how many cops pull over chargers with exhausts vs. civics with exhausts???
i hate police that are bias
how many cops pull over chargers with exhausts vs. civics with exhausts???
i hate police that are bias
26-May-2006, 10:56 AM
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"i support the hell's angels for police, at least they are reasonable"
WHAT THE **** IS THAT!
If you post something like that do you at least want to justify or discuss your vies on that.
WHAT THE **** IS THAT!
If you post something like that do you at least want to justify or discuss your vies on that.
