Hi i currently have a b18b in my civic eg with a full exhaust and intake. I plan to put in headers soon and wondering whats the cheapest way to make power. I basically want to be around B18C5 power. People say vtec or turbo but both are really $$. Is it worth trying to go all motor non-vtec with lets say crower cams and intake manifold?

 

you'll spend a lot more $$$ doing it n/a, especially if you stay non-vtec....but good power can be made with n/a non-vtec 1.8 and 2L builds.

Cheapest way would be n20, hands down, but a lot of people bash n20 (mostly people with no experience with it).

LSvtecs can make incredible power for the money, but you'll get nowhere with the stock b18b pistons, b16 or ITR pistons make good substitutes and will increase the compression ratio, which will allow you to run larger cams and ultimately make more power.

Slapping a VTEC head on a b18b won't be ITR power, but with a mild n/a LSvtec build you'd be surprised how much power/torque can be produced. Keep in mind "just slappin in some pistons" isn't as easy as people make it sound and there are so many other things that go along with doing that. Things add up quickly b/c there are a lot of "well since i'm doing this, I might as well do that" when building an engine.

Turbo is also a GREAT way of making power, reliably and safely
B18B on really low boost will make much more than ITR power, but again with boost there are things that go along that cost $$$. Things like upgraded clutch, injectors, fuel pump, catch can setup, tuning, etc etc.

 

okay first off thanks for that response really informative. So basically your suggesting a turbo setup in that case if i keep a stock block will I make good power or am I going to have to build it? I've heard with a good tune Ls blocks can safely run 8lbs of boost? I actually wouldnt mind N20 but not too sure of the work needed to run it without detontation. Would you think Camshafts, bolt-ons and n20 would be a good street car in the case of best bang for buck?

 

The thing with camshafts is that you will also need to replace your valvesprings and retainers to handle the extra lift/duration of aftermarket cams. This could be a good chunk of change by the time you're done and for the gains you'll see from using different cams in a stock engine, honestly won't be worth the money, especially if you plan on using n20.

There isn't any real huge things that need to be done in order to safely run n20. All you really need is to use a wet kit, colder spark plugs and retard the timing appropriately for the amount of n20 you are using. I'd recommend doing some dyno tuning with the n20 and maybe a better fuel pump, but thats up to you.

I've tuned several STOCK LS's on more than 8psi. Most of which are still going strong to this day (one actually added a vtec head, not blew up). Boosted LS's produce incredible torque numbers (200+ ft/lbs at low boost). Add a vtec head and expect to see 50+whp at the same boost level.
The one my buddy did went from 255whp @ 13psi (non-vtec) to 315whp @ 11psi with the vtec head. This all done with a cheaper turbo kit, using a cast iron manifold, t3/t4 57 trim, 2.5" exhaust with a cat, closed loop downpipe (not open to atmosphere), 440cc injectors on a completely stock block and stock b16 head. Its still going strong to this day.

I love boost and have a stock block boosted b16 running 12psi myself. This engine has 250,000kms on it and has been boosted for 2 years.

 

jason a.k.a "spike" had 12LBs on his stock ls motor before he went lsvtec ask him how it was,

 

what else is there to it after just slaping in the pistons, what else would u change?

 

well, to just slap in pistons, I'd recommend using oversized pistons. So then you have to get the block bored/honed. I'd also recommend line honing the mains and decking the block/head to insure flat/true mating surfaces. Then of course you'll need new rod bearings (at least) and if you're changing the rod bearings you might as well change the main bearings and thrust washers. If you're doing all of this work building a LSvtec then you might as well spend the extra $50 on ARP rod bolts to insure safe(r) high rpms. If you're putting in ARP rod bolts you should hone the big ends of the rods to insure when torqued down the big end is still true/round. If you're in there doing all of this work, you might as well replace the oil pump/water pump with a vtec counterpart and since you've gone this far you might as well use ARP hardware all around (main studs, head studs). Then of course there is balancing the rotating assembly. I'd balance everything that rotates....this costs good money alone.

See how one thing leads to another? You start off just replacing pistons and end up spending $2500 building the bottom end. Trust me, i've done it several times now with peoples cars and friends cars.

As for asking spike what his boosted LS was like on 12psi, i'd say save your breath (no offense spike) but how he boosted his car is far from a good example. He was running 12psi on a stock MAP sensor (extremely bad idea, seeing as the stock ones can only see/handle 11psi reliably) but I guess that doesn't matter since he was using a VAFC/SAFC to tune the thing (again, extremely bad idea) prolly using a "check valve" or "bypass valve" which bleeds off the boost pressure before the MAP sensor sees it. This is done so that the stock ecu doesn't see boost, b/c if it does it'll go into limp mode and you won't be able to rev past 4000rpms until you restart the engine.

There are several reasons why this is a horrible way to boost a car, but I won't get into this until Spike responds with his feedback, b/c i'm not 100% this was what he did.

 

okay that helped me alot i think maybe ill go vtec first then boost. I heard stock ls bottom with stock b16 head all i need to run it reliable is to not rev past 8000k get a steel head gasket and arp head studs? Plus if i spent an extra lets say $100 and bought a GSR head would it save me money in the end because then i wont have to machine it to the block like a b16 would need?

 

the GSR head needs the same treatment as a b16/ITR head to fit on a LS block.

I would say stay below 7500rpms if you wanna be really safe.

 

okay how much would you guess the ls vtec setup will cost including tuning and such and same with the turbo set up? im just on a budget thats why im asking so many questions

 

I think my buddy spent around $2000's give or take after everything said and done to convert to VTEC. But he did everything right, didn't skimp out on a thing, it can be done cheaper, but cheaper isn't better IMO.

 

2000 bucks isnt bad at all IMO...when i start mine can i get at u for tips?

 

ya man.