Alright, I will give you a basic run down. I have a 2000 si civic, stock engine non vtec and sohc. I was saving up money to swap the motor and turbo it BUT I dont know which motor to buy. I have asked around and people have recommended B16 or H22, to tell you the truth, I dont know to much about engine and I wont know which one is better. Of course if there are any other ones you guys can recommend besides these two that would be great

HELP A BROTHA OUT

 

First, if you have a stock '00 Si, you sir, DO have VTEC. The motor in the 96-00 Si was the D16Y8 SOHC VTEC 1.6L. Making about 128hp at the flywheel. From what I've seen, a great place to read up on the different motors Honda offered and in what platforms, is actually wikipedia. Type in "Honda d series" you'll get a list of the different motors from as far back as the 3rd gen civic/1st gen CRX EW chassis even though in the beginning they weren't called the d series yet up to the end of the d series in the 01-05 Civic/EL platforms with the largest version being the D17's. From 92-05 all Si, EX-V and EL versions came with a VTEC 1.6L till '00 when it bumped up to a 1.7L.


As for what you should get, well that is a question that really, only you can answer. You can take any motor and make it go extremely fast if your money and skill allows. Also your intentions for the car, track use, street only, DD or weekend warrior etc all can change what motor is best for you. There is really so many options as to what you could do, your best bet is to look at cars that are doing what you want to do with your car and see what's popular, and what's working well reliably for them. If racing is in your cars future, look into a race league you're thinking of joining and chances are you'll have a list of motors and mods that you are restricted to, that could sway your decision as well.

The B16 and H22 are two motor choices that are both good, as long as you get a fresh motor that hasn't been beaten to death and smokes like Joe Camel. If you plan to go either of those routes I highly recommend paying the extra coin on buying from a dealer and not a used one pulled some kids hatch who needs money for school. The 17 year old won't offer much in the way of a warranty.

Personally I feel that if you really wanna go DOHC, get a B series, IF you insist on an H then I recommend a JDM one, there was a fluke defect in the USDM ones and in my opinion makes them a waste of good aluminium. I also recommend the H2B build as the B series trans is far better geared for performance the tall long gears of the H series.

You really will get a ton of people telling you do this motor, or that motor cause that's what they're doing and they know best. Myself, I'm keeping my SOHC VTEC and boosting it. You can make great numbers and for the DD use my car sees I could easilly make more power then I want for street use and really, even for pure 1320ft pulls, there have been D series motors boosted making 700hp+. Check d-series.org for more on what the D can do. I've seriously considered a CR-VTEC build, but since I had so many aftermarket bolt on's for my EH3's original motor, when it came time to swap, another D just made sense. Though if I was set on boost, and a B I'd do an LS-VTEC instead, not that you can't boost a CRV block, but what you loose in TQ numbers you gain in reliability as far as stock internals go, if you wanna go all out and get into sleeving then sure BOOST THE HECK OUTTA IT. There are bored and stroked B18s that are punched out to just over the 2L mark making estimated 1200hp+ so I don't think you really need a B20 block to get the numbers you want.

 

You need to do A LOT more research before even thinking of what engine you would like.
Power Goals
Cost
Time line (I suffered greatly with this one)
labour
rebuild
NA or Turbo?
Drive ability, DD or Race Car.
Parts needed

a B or H series will require you to get, new mounts, new engine, new transmission, new linkages, new CV shafts, new Computer, etc. If you stay with a D series, you'll need to buy an engine, build it, and have it installed.

You've opened a huge can of worms with out even knowing it.

I'm a big supporter of the B20VTEC. Or you could buy my CRX for $5000 and save yourself $10000 (Free plug )


I'm also offering a biased opinion on the H series. Don't buy an H. The will cost you a lot more, for less gain. It was the biggest 4 Honda made, so people thought bigger = better, but the engine sucks (IMO) compared to an ITR or GSR engine cost vs. performance. I've raced Ludes on the highway, and by that I mean Track, and my 96 Civic HB with ITR eats them. I assume a GS-R would too.

-B

 

Yes, first things first.

Power goal? Budget? vehicle use?

 

If he was starting out and didn't have a car, your CRX for 5G's would be the way to go, but since he already has a car, just want's to make it better... he needs to figure isht out.

I have 2 projects, one is a 1G CRX, if I didn't have those and did have the money they're worth (far less then the money I wasted on them) I'd be knocking on your door.

FREE PLUG for you.

 

I'd sell the engine for 5G... and throw in a CRX lol

I think we really need to need to wait for this 1 poster to reply to see where we go from here lol.

-B

 

Hey sorry for the late reply... uni has me backed up already -.- anyway all of you offered some really great advice THANKS. Yea I wont be looking to buy a car haha but I wont be looking to put my car on the track (for now or maybe never)
My budget is 4000$ (im guessing this is not enough for some reason) and I will be using the car most if not all days. There isnt really too much of a power goal in mind but something definately over 300-400

 

Piston & Rods: $1200
Turbo: $1500'ish
Engine $2000 sound fair guys?
CV Shafts: $500 ( I forget what I paid for mine)
Computer/Tune: $700'ish
Turbo Parts: $1500-$2000
Mounts: $200+


Labour/Machining? 0$-infinite$

That's a few things, and ball park pricing.
-B

 

Oh lordy... Hmm, If my tuition wasnt so high all of this would have been done by this summer -.-. But wait, sorry if this sounds noobish, but the turbo doesnt come with a turbo kit??

 

Negative.
Front Mount Intercooler, Blow off valve, Dump valve, air intake, couplings, hoses, etc.
I'm sure you could get a turbo charger kit, though.

I read here once a very good saying:
Pick 2: Cheap, Reliable, and Fast.
You can get a Reliable car for cheap, but it's not fast (Cobalt ).
You can get a Cheap fast car, but it's not reliable (Cobalt SS).
Or you can get a Reliable Fast car, but it ain't cheap! (Subaru STI! Watches MPR roll his eyes)

There's a lot that goes into a good turbo build. Or you can spend about $750 and get an ebay kit, and a 300-500$ tune and put out 200-300whp for a week or 2.

-B

 

He doesn't already have a B16A2 does he?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_C...9.E2.80.932000

Or the other Wiki Page:
D16Y8

1.6L 16-Valve SOHC VTEC Also available in New Zealand under the code D16Y6

* Found in:
o 1996–1997 Honda Del Sol Si (US)
o 1996–2000 Honda Civic EX (US, UK)
o 1996–2000 Honda Civic Si (Canada)

 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/D-SERIES-CAST...item255fd24eb5

 

Yea I already have a D16Y8... wouldnt I need a stronger engine to turbo????

 

First thing first, F8i, I agree sti's are fast and pricey, but from what I hear and have seen, their reliability is not stellar...

Also, friend of mind has a chevy HHR ss turbo (same car as cobalt ss turbo) with the GM stage 1 upgrade. He's racking up the km's and it's been extremely reliable.

But a lot of this is subjective to the specific vehicle, it's quality of modifications and installation of those mods, how well the car was tuned and how the driver drives/treats the car, so as to determine its reliability. Rule of thumb which applies in general is you get what you pay for. And yes, you must pick 2: fast, reiable, cheap.

300 to 400 whp in a front wheel drive car like a civic is so far over kill. Especially for the street. You'll need a big turbo which will have a narrow efficiency range which means you'll have no power in the lower half of your rpm range. You'll hate driving it daily with a heavy clutch which is needed to handle that kind of power. All these things will kill its streetability and it won't be enjoyable to drive and you won't be able to use the power anyways.

My suggestion to you is this: stick with the d series motor and do a vitara build and turbo it to about 200 to 250 whp. You'll be able to use the power, the car will still be fast as hell and will be much more driveable and enjoyable for the street. It'll also save you a heap of money that you can use for tuition or other more important needs.

300whp+ always sound great in theory, but in reality, its expensive, not practical and useless. (Esp with fwd).

Good luck.

 

trinic: Find out what your crankshaft and cylinder walls can handle. Add pistons and rods. Maybe just pistons if you want a 250whp (Which I agree with MPR is a VERY fast car). 250whp is more than double what your car is now!

in my 96 HB, I went from a 92whp, to whatever a ITR is (150whp?) and it was fantastic!

MPR, Everyone I know that has had a Cobalt SS, well, no longer has a cobalt SS. STI's are bullet proof. Mine was a lemon, sold by some d.ick head. Granted, their turbos go, and everything for Subaru is WAY... WAY over priced.

-B

 

To be honest, I really did not want ot buy a new motor, because I have less than 160 clicks on my engine and I geuss it can go for about another 150 before I need to swap... And I dont really mind how fast it goes, as long as it makes it over 200 while keeping the stock motor! I just dont want the engine to blow on me .What do I need to do to avoid that? Also how would I go about finding about the specs of the crankshaft and cylinder. I also assume I need better fuel injectors. If im not using the money for a new engine this would benefit me sooo much

 

Good answer


I don't know much about the D series. However, for any good engine build:
-Pistons, Rods, Bearings. Ask your tuner about compression. (Call Neetronics and talk to them what you need to buy)
I used, Wiseco, Eagle, ACL.
- Injectors, there's a website RC performance, or something, that you input specs to, and it will tell you what you need. You'll also need a fuel pump.
I'm using RC 640cc and Deatsch Werks (DW) 745cc
- Turbo, look for the power band you want. Although a 550hp turbo and 300hp turbo cost about the same, don't be tempted for the 550hp, it's not want you want.
- turbo kit hardware: you need it! Check out our sponsors, they have doit yourself stuff. thicker Steel the better, mandrel bent is also much better than couplings.

- Tune, Computer, 3 Bar map sensor.

If you look in the turbo charged section, I think DTP(Martin) made a turbo charge list.

-B

 

^^I unfortunately did not make such list.

But, OP, if you want to go turbo, well staying D series may work out well. I remember there was a company that was selling a whole kit that included pistons/rods/bearings/headgasket and bunch of other little gaskets needed for rebuild for a very fair price. From my understanding seeing over 300whp with that kit is very doable. But also keep in mind, what Mike said is true, going over 250whp gets hard to drive the car because of heavier clutch, narrower power band and to be honest, you will be replacing tires very often haha.

Getting a smaller turbo would be key thing really. Stick with a gt2871 or td04-18t or so and you should be good. Quicker spool up and will keep power up top. Moreover, you will be going all over he road with the torque steer you will get and really have to be careful.

Also, your budget being 4k, ahh....you blow through that sooo fast you dont even notice. You really have to think about what you want to do. In the end of the day, spending 7-9k on a reliable build making 300-400whp is going to depreciate sooo much it may just make you cry. There is just no way of fitting into 4k...unless you just turbo your stock motor and call it quits at 200whp. I am assuming non of the work will be done by you thus it will get real expensive, real quick.

EDIT: The kit i was talking about was vitara by FJ distributors as sort of mentioned by Mike.

 

KK So... Knowing that I have other uses for my money (tuition, metro pass, books) would it be wise to turbo my stock motor with the appropriate mods to the engine?? Or should I wait the next few years, save some money swap a new engine in then turbo it? I kinda wanna turbo it next summer but that would be with the sock engine... what would be the smarter choice?

 

design the engine that you want to build. research for months.
then slowly chip away at buying parts when you can.

Or maybe go N/A if you don't want to wait years.
-B